Pub Company Debt - Constant Sheriff Perstering / Company Ign

i234i_2

Hi there,

Just found this forum on my searches and looks fantastic for advice!

Im in Scotland, if it makes a difference on reply!

In september 2009 i took over a closed pub on lease from S&N pub company (owned by R&L pub co) and ran the pub from them, before going in i paid a bond for rental of £4000, not beer as this was strictly on a basis of cash before order. There was also a agreed weekly payment to this to top up the bond to a total of £8000 whoch was paid most weeks unless agreed not to due to trade etc.

In April 2010, we had noise complaints and weekly meetings with the council regarding a tenant above since the new legislation for scottish licensed premises in edinburgh that no noise should leave the premises or be heard in neighbouring residential premises (tenement). The pub company had agreed in writing that due to this they would support and the rentalwould reduce from £500, for three months free to get the debt amount previously from the start of the noise problems clear then moving the a supported rent of £300 per week until the noise problems were resolved.

In this time, full band live music was suspended and cancelled, with only unplugged acoustic and dj on weekend via a limiter. As you can imagine trade was non existing due to the above for awhile.

The no bands and music etc was ongoing and in November 2010 the r&l pub company went into administration and S&N stopped being the management co which passed onto LT pub management, where things totally went downhill... It took till feb 2011 to actually meet the person working with us for them and had emailed twice a list of concerns and requested info from them. The freehold of the pub went upfor sale. They seem to say things change only when it suits them and for the better of them...

* there wasa constant battle with them regarding the noise rental reduction, which i constantly asked from they took over that the rental reduction was still in place as they were effectively only a change in management. They would always "get back to me". At this point NO music was allowed.

* one of the "area managers" entered the premises and demanded to view the cellar to check ourbeer due to the beer tie, this was a staff member id never met before. No id was available to be shown and in front of a witness said he would wait 10 minutes then be bursting in to check and phoning a locksmith.

* back to the above noise problems the licensing board took this to the board and said the premises was unsuitable for live music, which in my opinion bucked up the fact of the rent concession but still no further on. Each week id paid in £300pw to the management where only occasionally they would ask why not £500, where i re mentioned the live music ban and rent concession, again they would get back to me. They constantly reminded they would support the music but wouldnt give any concrete and also that they would take care and pay for the licensng board defence due to pub position.

I met with a potential owner who stated they were keen to buy the premises but only to run themselves, so i knew the management company would change approach to shift me out due to noise problems and "debt" which was supposed to be a consession to no live music.

In September 2011, one of the decent area managers said he recommended i leave the premises and sent them a intent to leave which the management co would apply to the administrators to request due to the no live music, this i did agree with as id been asking how best to get out of the lease as id signed it as a live music bar. He said this was a "carpark conversation" and totally up to me but they would apply to irritate the lease and go to court! I agreed and sent the letter in but that was "up to administrators" they got back to me with 31st Oct 2011, but forced for a fowarding address (to hassle me, no doubt) and to sign a letter to give up the premises, i agreed to leave but not sign and documentation.

The thing with this company was they only say and do things which suit them, blaming things on previous management or that has to be dealt with by the administrators! How much of that is true is debatableasit seems to change to suit them and the bank balance.

Through a friend said he found out info of the areamanagers previous refusal to move to australia but was refused due to a previous drug conviction, i didnt hear from the management company or area manager for the 3 weeks. If true or not it bought me some time and on 31st October i left on my own accord and closed the premises. It took them 3 weeks to realise,the new owners going in said they needed me to sign to say id left the premises, i agreed to meet to look over the document with them plus the area manager frm before who forced to kick the door in... It stated i wasnt liable and didnt have any of the management companys details on it.. So i did which showed the leaving date as the 31 October.

The area manager at the meeting thoug he was the big man and stated he knew i was movimg to run a new pub inanother area for another pub co.

Since leaving in October 2011 i had continued to pay in weekly and monthly various amounts to the management companies bank account from £1, £5, £10 or £20 amounts at various points as i was told by a friend that i must make at least average of £1 since leaving date to show commitment that i know there is an amount to be paid but dispute amount and to cover my back incase of future court. I startedto sent these to the credit controller for the company where i asked if they would setup a payment plan or agree a weekly amount, this was ignored and i was asked to send future payments to new credit controller who both ignored my emails for payment plan request and confirmtion of costs.

February 2012, after the new owner took over the freehold of the pub they sent me a "final invoice" to the new pub address as they didnt have my home address. I instantly emailed my disputes of the final invoice, which they responded would be looked at but never have (charges for november/dec rent although signed to say left on 31 oct, charges for buying out beer etc but no description on the invoice). I asked for a breakdown of these costs too which ddnt get a reply.

February 2012 a sheriff officer contacted me by phone saying he had a document from the court for me to sign Butin thename of the in administraton landlord, not either of the management companies. Should note the only lease i signed was to the first management co, S&N, which shows R&L pubs as the management not either S&N or LT. I ignored the sherrif officer as the premises didnt open till 5pm and i changed my number after 20 calls.

Nothing happened between then and April apart from me trying to get a response from LT pubs on the above matters and was it actually them or the landlord the amount was owed plus my request for breakdown of costs, nothing!

April 2012, new sheriff officers appear at the pub on my day off and say they will be back tomorrow. They appearbut i delaypub opening and see them bang door until they clear off then reopen. I then contact LT to ask re sheriff officers, pay plan, stop bugging me and reply. Nothing again.

I then went to CAB as its driving me nuts that they are trying to get sheriff officers to catch me and make me sign. Ut not reply direct, the CAB officer sent the fax to them to ask total, If sheriff officers were out to new address, if arrangement of £20 a month acceptable, has my bond / balance been taken into the balance.

I got an emal reply to my email from Morton Fraser, saying yes it was them sending sheriff officers for me to send some sort out court letter, that i owe £19k (rental concession disappeared amount plus nov/dec rent when i wasnt there) which went up from final invoice earlier (how can a final invoice not be final??), that they would try to reopen communication with me but they havent and that £20p/m wasnt ever acceptable and wont be and they recieved £5 in march and £20 in april but not the earlier payments, It also stated that the client has no intent of communication from me, lucky i have sent replies!

I am due to respond to Morton Fraser tomorrow, i want to make sure my backs covered incase of court action but cant keep avoiding the officers they send out or letters trying to bully me. If there is a balance im happy to keep a monthly payment plan but not to a fony amount to suit them to cover all the costs they incur, the licensing board music appeal they losts costs are also on my invoice!!

Ps. I never signed anything to LT pubs, only the 2009 agreement to landlord, sheriff offiers show working for landlord who went in administration but certain docs and replies from LT as management.

Help?? Not sure how to proceed so im covered and not be caught out on this!

Thanks for all your help, loe this forum and will keep you all p to date as we go!

Oh and forgot to say the final invoice shows my initial £4k depoit split between drink and rent deposit, although never a drink deposit and NONE of the build up deposit paid to s&N.

There is also a debt from s&n thst LT said was passed to them but still no proof of this or what its for.


They want all of the debt to go to them they can make up, but admit no concession was in place with live music. Seems they are wanting everything to keep them looking good!