No Decision Maker, no SOR

HB58

I have recdently appealed the decision to put me in the WRAG for ESA. As part of this, I phoned up and requested the 'Statement of Reasons'. Nothing arrived so I phoned again and spoke to a lady who said she would send out a copy of my ESA85 (the medical report).

The ESA85 arrived, but I know that I needed the Statement of Reasons so I decided it would be worth making a 'Subject Access Request' under the Freedom of Information Act as this would mean that I got a copy of all the paperwork. A while later I received another copy of the ESA85, no note or anything with it.

So I phoned again and asked what was happening. The young man I spoke to had no idea what I was talking about so requested a call-back from someone more senior. This lady phoned the next day (stupidly I omitted to make a note of her name :embarasse) and started off by saying 'I believe you want a copy of your medical report'. I explained that I had already had 2 of these but wanted the Statement of Reasons and any other paperwork the DWP held relating to my claim.

I was treated to a ver long, patronising, lecture about how ESa works, what the WRAG is and the purpose of WFI's. Then I asked again for the rest of the paperwork associated with my claim. There followed another lecture about something totally unrealted to my query.

Eventually we came to the crux of the matter when I said I wanted the Decision Maker's score sheet and a written explanation of how and why he/she had made the decision. 'Oh' says MS DWP 'we don't send things to the Decision Maker anymore. We look at the medical form and decide what group you will be in. If you meet the threshold we put you in WRAG, we don't bother to go any further after that'.

So, it seems that there is now no official Decision Maker, no DM's scoresheet and no Statement of Reasons! Ms DWP confirmed that the only paperwork DWP have relating to my claim is the ESA85.

I'm not the only person who has had problems getting hold of the SOR (I know of one lady who was sent pages of meaningless computer printout when she insisted that she wanted the SOR). I don't know how this is going to affect appeals - especially as the claimant is supposed to have an extra couple of weeks to appeal when the SOR has been requested.

rogerblack

HB58 wrote: »

I have recdently appealed the decision to put me in the WRAG for ESA. As part of this, I phoned up and requested the 'Statement of Reasons'. Nothing arrived so I phoned again and spoke to a lady who said she would send out a copy of my ESA85 (the medical report).

Utter, utter !!!!!!!!.

However.
Several issues - there will not be a statement of reasons in your file until it's properly requested.
Requesting a copy of your file through the DPA gets you a copy of your file - it does not get the decision-maker to write out a statement of reasons.

As you have requested your statement of reasons, and it has not been supplied, the time for the appeal isn't even running yet.

You have two weeks after it's sent to you to appeal.

Make an official complaint in writing, following the escalation procedure about the poor service.

And reconfirm that you want the statement of reasons, that you have - in time - requested, and they have not supplied - so as to have a good idea of the grounds for your appeal.

This is disturbing - I note that it was fairly hard to convince the DWP person that I wanted the statement of reasons for my decision on the phone.

Someone with less knowledge of the process may have had problems.

Adereterial

Decision Makers only look at those who have scored less than 15 points. If you score 15 points or more at the WCA it won't go to a decision maker.

You only get Decision Maker's reasoning in cases where 15 points have not been awarded.

If you feel you should be in the Support Group then you can appeal. Your claim will be looked at again and rescored as part of that process. You will receive a copy of that including the full submission to the Tribunal Service.

If you only want a statement of reasons for the sake of it, please reconsider - there is a significant cost implication to providing these and if you have no intention to appeal please think about whether the Decision Maker's time could be better spent dealing with someone else's claim.

Muttleythefrog

Adereterial wrote: »

Decision Makers only look at those who have scored less than 15 points. If you score 15 points or more at the WCA it won't go to a decision maker.

Wow... you learn something every day. So you're saying ATOS HC are making the WCA decisions unless ATOS HC send them a report (ESA85/ESA85A) indicating they've failed the WCA?

If so it is horrifying but it certainly would explain many observations made such as problems raised here in this thread... and things like in my last reassessment 'I don't know why you were awarded Support Group' and 'I don't know what a statement of reasons is but we'll be sending you a decision letter which I think is the same thing (which they duly did without any reference to decisions..lol)'

Folar

I have been asking for my SOR for FIVE months! I got so fed up with being totally ignored (and I mean I got nothing from them at all, no phone calls back, no replies to my letter etc)' I contacted my MP. He wrote to the Chairman but also got no reply. At the end of my tether I sent a 4 page email, with attachments of every piece of correspondence to Mr Chris Grayling. Within an hour I had an email from a 'Manager of crrespondence' who stated he had tried to call my mobile twice and had left a message. He never had. I had received no calls and no messages however in the email he said he will call me weds. I have Mr Graylings telephone number so if Mr Manager of Correspondence doesn't call me I shall call Mr Grayling.

Time for some quiet, calm facts to be given to the top of the chain me thinks.

Adereterial

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

Wow... you learn something every day. So you're saying ATOS HC are making the WCA decisions unless ATOS HC send them a report (ESA85/ESA85A) indicating they've failed the WCA?

If so it is horrifying but it certainly would explain many observations made such as problems raised here in this thread... and things like in my last reassessment 'I don't know why you were awarded Support Group' and 'I don't know what a statement of reasons is but we'll be sending you a decision letter which I think is the same thing (which they duly did without any reference to decisions..lol)'

Not quite - Atos score claimants after the WCA and send that report through to a DWP benefit centre. Those that haven't scored 15 points are passed to Decision Makers because disallowing benefit has to be done by a Decision Maker (on any grounds, not just WCA) - they can, and do, award additional points if they feel it is appropriate, or they will confirm the Atos score if there is no additional evidence to change it. Those decisions will be accompanied with reasoning statements, whether that decision is to allow or disallow. Those that have scored 15 points will not be passed to a Decision Maker as no disallowance decision needs to be considered, as the basic condition is met. They will be considered for completeness by someone trained to do so, and the appropriate component (Support or WRA) will be applied and payments released.

You can get a statement of reasons, if you wish, but it will say very little more than 'scored XX points at the assessment but did not score sufficient points to satisfy the support group criteria.' The statements are not detailed, rather very brief.

To have every WCA outcome (even those who have passed) looked at by a decision maker would be so time consuming that the current delays would seem like a mere drop in the ocean...

If you wish to appeal the ESA85 you've received should give you sufficient information to base your appeal on - you need to determine whether there is anything in addition to that which may mean you satisfy support group criteria. Any statement of reasons will not add to that, as it will be entirely based on the WCA report (and may even quote directly from it).

HB58

Adereterial wrote: »

Decision Makers only look at those who have scored less than 15 points. If you score 15 points or more at the WCA it won't go to a decision maker.

You only get Decision Maker's reasoning in cases where 15 points have not been awarded.

If you feel you should be in the Support Group then you can appeal. Your claim will be looked at again and rescored as part of that process. You will receive a copy of that including the full submission to the Tribunal Service.

If you only want a statement of reasons for the sake of it, please reconsider - there is a significant cost implication to providing these and if you have no intention to appeal please think about whether the Decision Maker's time could be better spent dealing with someone else's claim.

I have already lodged my appeal - why is why I need to see the Statement of Reasons!

Cpt.Scarlet

Adereterial wrote: »

Not quite - Atos score claimants after the WCA and send that report through to a DWP benefit centre. Those that haven't scored 15 points are passed to Decision Makers because disallowing benefit has to be done by a Decision Maker (on any grounds, not just WCA) - they can, and do, award additional points if they feel it is appropriate, or they will confirm the Atos score if there is no additional evidence to change it. Those decisions will be accompanied with reasoning statements, whether that decision is to allow or disallow. Those that have scored 15 points will not be passed to a Decision Maker as no disallowance decision needs to be considered, as the basic condition is met. They will be considered for completeness by someone trained to do so, and the appropriate component (Support or WRA) will be applied and payments released.

Benefit decisions, postive or negative can only leaglly be made by a DWP Decision Maker who is delegated the authority by the Secretary of State.

Please provde proof regarding your statement.

Adereterial

Cpt.Scarlet wrote: »

Benefit decisions, postive or negative can only leaglly be made by a DWP Decision Maker who is delegated the authority by the Secretary of State.

Please provde proof regarding your statement.

I work with benefits and in collaboration with DWP.

Those who deal with allowed decisions have delegated authority to award benefit but are not 'decision makers' by job role or grade and do not need to provide reasoning.

It's the same with all benefits - the vast majority of claims go nowhere near a 'Decision Maker' in the official sense. They only do so if there is reason for them to do so - capital decisions, part time/permitted work, living together, WCA low scores etc.

Cpt.Scarlet

Adereterial wrote: »

I work with benefits and in collaboration with DWP.

Those who deal with allowed decisions have delegated authority to award benefit but are not 'decision makers' by job role or grade and do not need to provide reasoning.

It's the same with all benefits - the vast majority of claims go nowhere near a 'Decision Maker' in the official sense. They only do so if there is reason for them to do so - capital decisions, part time/permitted work, living together, WCA low scores etc.

So you can't provide any proof then!

ALIBOBSY

I used to work in the DWP both at the benefit advisor level and the higher "EO" level which you would normally associate with being a decision maker and did make DM decisions (but not on IB as it was then). The fact is certain decisions ARE delegated to a lower level. EG when doing an award from a claim form the award was done by the benefit advisor level and legally we were classed as being the "decision maker" or "secretary of state" for that dec. Some decisions had to been done at the higher leveland there were security procedures in place ie one person was not able to build a claim from start to finish AND make a decision. Plus decisions at all levels were subject to random checks-although that only means they check the award or disallowance was done correctly on the info held and can't allow for the vaguries of the ATOS system.

So Ader is correct not every decision went to a higher grade "decision maker" in the traditional sense and someone at a lower level was deemed a decision maker for that level.

Now I left the DWP about 5 or 6 years ago and never dealt with ESA, but I can confirm sometimes decisions were at different levels on other benefits for all the time I was there (from the late eighties).

Ali x