Unpaid half hours

sHAYM4N

Hi all, hoping there will be someone with a bit of legal knowledge that could help with an issue in our department.

I work in security for a pretty well known university. When I started employment here we worked 12 hour shifts and were paid for 11 hours. Initially when restructured to 12 hours (before I started) the reasoning was that we would have a one hour unpaid meal break.

In practice we only ever had half an hour, management said they couldnt afford for us to be off shift for an hour, but payment was never changed to reflect this. Time went on, and another restructure put us on 8 hour shifts. We have put in a claim with HR to reclaim the half hours over 3 years (including overtime) which totals around £3,500.

We have now been told that the claim can not be pursued as their is no paper trail or evidence to show that we were working 12 hour shifts (despite it being a 12 hour roster). Breaks are not detailed in the contract of employment either. I've provided wage slips, and paperwork detailing that we were working 12 hour shifts with half an hour break and wage slips which show we were getting paid for 11 hours.

Also isn't there legislation in place for meal breaks that over a certain period a paid break of 20 minutes must be given? Seems wrong we were working 11&1/2 hours sometimes 12 yet only being paid for 11?

The union in place here is a waste of space as the reps work here, and are in positions close to management, so it's a conflict of interest. Not sure what the next step is? Citizens Advice or Solicitors, or should it just be dropped?

They've also offered VR university wide 50% salary which I have applied for, but now after receiving an estimate, we've been told that no-one will be let go out our department. Trapped :mad:

Humphrey10

sHAYM4N wrote: »

Also isn't there legislation in place for meal breaks that over a certain period a paid break of 20 minutes must be given?

The legislation says you must be allowed a break if working over X hours, but doesn't require it to be paid.

paddedjohn

you are entitled to a 20 minute break if you work a shift of 6 hrs or more, you had a 30 min lunch so that covers that.
did the extra 30 mins per day unpaid put you below minimum wage?

sHAYM4N

paddedjohn wrote: »

you are entitled to a 20 minute break if you work a shift of 6 hrs or more, you had a 30 min lunch so that covers that.
did the extra 30 mins per day unpaid put you below minimum wage?

No still over minimum wage, but every shift we worked for 3 years, half an hour of it remains unpaid. In the past we've all been flexible with shift swaps for toil (overtime knocked on the head) to make sure things have been covered, even though it's time for time (and university policy states for time off in lieu an extra four hours should be paid).

They've said that there is no proof of the fact we worked 12 hour shifts despite the roster being 07:00-19:00/19:00-07:00 covered 24/7 on top of the fact that the paperwork presented in the claim states. "Security staff currently work 12 hours with a half hour break". It's not a contractual document, but a university document that was part of the restructure process when we went to 8 hour shifts, so wouldn't that be enough? Seems blatent ignorance just to avoid paying us what we should be entitled to.

Well, I would have thought it would be enough We're not trying to be greedy, just what we're entitled to, when mistakes have been made in the past (overpayments made) they've automatically been deducted from the wage. Surely it's only fair & right that it works the same way when underpayments have been made?

wapow

As a company, theyre quick to take money but wont roll over as quick when it comes to paying out money.

Get a third party involved.

I would suggest ALL of you stick together on this. You need to visit the union if you are a part of it, regardless of their position. HOWEVER at the same time, go to CAB and get advice. Show them the paperwork. Their must also be someone you reported to, a senior who knows that you lot were working 12 hour shifts.

However, you have the proof there as wage slips and rota etc. So how did they turn you back by saying you have no proof???

sHAYM4N

That's awesome, we've still had no official outcome of the claim, just verbal - I think hoping we will drop the matter. I've just sent an email to the gentleman handling the claim and our line manager to try and at least get a response. Have kept it short, but we have claimants in the union so will follow that up. Many thanks.

Unfortunately the rosters don't have times. They only stated either Day or Night basically because on a 12 hour shift that's all we needed to know! but hasn't helped the cause. Have sent...

Apologies if I’m incorrect (I couldn’t attend yesterday’s meeting) but after 6 months with a lack of any written confirmation on this matter, I can only act on what I have been told.
I have been informed that the claim for half hour payments has been rejected due to their being no evidence that we worked 12 Hour shifts?

and then inserted a clipping of the document highlighted the text stating...

'Security Wardens currently work - 12 hour shifts (1/2 hour break) 7 days per week, covering a 24 hour operation. The shift patterns are on a 29 week cycle, with Rest Day 1 and Rest Day 2 built into the shifts over a 7 day period, which extends over a four year cycle.'

paddedjohn

OP im on your side on this but why bring it up now after all this time?

getmore4less

x-post
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3944737

reposting my answer here and deleting the other one.

getmore4less

Whats the wage rate?

If the unpaid time takes you below National minimum wage then thats an angle you coud persue.

Break is 20 min over 6 hours.(look up working time directive) but they are unpaid.


AIUI the problem is that the only right to be paid is the national minimum wage so they can, not pay for time you are working.



what they have implied though is if there was evidence that you worjed the hours they would pay(was the reponse in writeing).

If you want to persue this to be paid for the 1/2 hours then you need to look at the grievence process if you have what you believe is the evidence.

At least going forward they should be agreeing to pay forthe hours worked.

The other thing to check is are your holidays correct

Emmzi

sHAYM4N wrote: »

They've also offered VR university wide 50% salary which I have applied for, but now after receiving an estimate, we've been told that no-one will be let go out our department. Trapped :mad:

That's not being trapped. You can hand in your notice any time. Being greedy is not the same as being trapped. Good luck with your job hunting.

Googlewhacker

Also bear in mind that you have accepted this change of terms for 3 years so chances are custom and practise has taken place and as long as it doesn't take you under NMW which you have said it wouldn't then you SHOULD have argued this at the time.