What could I do with old builing in rural hamlet?

the_matrix

Hi

I've seen an old building in rural countryside hamlet for sale. It has no gas, electric or water. It basically one largish hall. The building is not listed.

The current owner applied for planning permission for residential use from religious hall and was told:

1. The proposal involves the creation of an additional dwelling unit in a location where it
   has not been successfully demonstrated that all reasonable attempts have been made to
   reuse the building for purposes which are supportive of the rural economy and accordingly the proposal does not comply with policies on the ruse of buildings within the countryside.
2. The proposed development, which is located outside the Major Urban Area of [removed] and not within a key rural service centre, would not assist in meeting local housing needs, would not materially support local services and would not be in a sustainable location or meet sustainable development objectives.
3. The applicant has failed to demonstrate that appropriate visibility splays can be
   provided for the proposed access and that the development would not result in highway
   danger from vehicles accessing and egressing from the site in close proximity to the junction.
4. The applicant has failed to demonstrate that the proposed parking bay can be safely
   accessed by vehicles travelling in a northerly direction, that the parking bay is of a sufficient
   size to accommodate a parked vehicle and that the development would not result in highway
   danger due to the manoeuvring of vehicles within the highway and the inappropriate parking of vehicles in close proximity to the junction.
5. The proposed development by virtue of its limited plot size and the need to provide a car
   parking space within the site would not provide an acceptable level and quality of private
   amenity space for prospective occupiers and accordingly would fail to provide adequate
   living conditions contrary to guidance Council’s supplementary planning guidance.
6. The proposed development is not supported by an appropriate and up-to-date Protected Species Survey and as such the applicant has failed to demonstrate that the proposal will not have an adverse impact on legally protected species.

1. What are the other uses they refer to in point 1?
2. How would I overcome each of the points?
3. Who does Protected Species Survey and how much do they cost?
4. What other planning permission could I get?
5. Bearing everything in mind what could I do with the building?
6. Are there companies that do no-win-no-fee arrangements to get planning permission?

Thanks in advance :beer:

paddy's_mum

I live in an extremely rural area. Not long ago, there was a nearby Wesleyan chapel for sale. It din't sell, for many of the reasons you list above, but also because it had only a 3' strip of land around it. That's hardly enough space to erect even a basic fence.

A single large-ish hall could be used as a child-care centre. It could also be used as a WI, or similar, meeting place. A blacksmith or farrier could use it to the benefit of its rural neighbours.

I accept that you say it has no water. However, most of them in this area do have a well and a separate cess-pit so they are not outside the local authority's expectation of basic standards.

Even if you can't ram through Planning Permission, would you still like it as a holiday home?

Could you appeal to the local authority to use it as an ecologically sound smallholding/allotment?

Itismehonest

Reading through the PP this was a religious building on a very small plot of land?

If it is an area without mains water/drainage there may be nowhere to extract water (bore) or for sewage (septic tank or soakaway).

For anywhere to become residential it has to fulfil certain requirements for parking & it looks like this is not possible within the property's land. Nor may vehicles be parked on the road.

The Protected Species Survey is exactly what it says - a survey showing if any Protected Species are present on site - for instance bats.

All in all it looks a non-starter if you are thinking of using it for people to live in particularly as they state that the building should, preferably, be used for the common good of the rural community (as in the examples paddy's mum gave).

Gloomendoom

My neighbour had to build his bats a little house in order get planning permission. Together with all the surveys and experts he had to hire, it cost him a fortune.

To add insult to injury, the bats don't like their new house and won't live in it.

Owain_Moneysaver

The proposal involves the creation of an additional dwelling unit in a location where it
has not been successfully demonstrated that all reasonable attempts have been made to
reuse the building for purposes which are supportive of the rural economy

If you really want residential planning permission, you need to demonstrate the reasonable attempts to reuse it. So you need to show that it's been advertised as small business premises etc but remained vacant for months, that there are other vacant business premises in the area, etc.

The proposed development, which is located outside the Major Urban Area of [removed] and not within a key rural service centre, would not assist in meeting local housing needs, would not materially support local services and would not be in a sustainable location or meet sustainable development objectives.

You'd need to show that the project would meet local housing needs, by looking at the number of homes in the area coming on to the market, you can get stats on the number of people on the council housing waiting list, etc.

You'd also need to show that the project would be 'sustainable' eg can you show that the nearest shops are local community businesses, that there is a bus route within reach even though the property's isolated, can you show you'd build to sustainable building standards, use water collection, solar energy etc? This may not be possible if you have a very small plot.

The applicant has failed to demonstrate that appropriate visibility splays can be
provided for the proposed access and that the development would not result in highway
danger from vehicles accessing and egressing from the site in close proximity to the junction.
The applicant has failed to demonstrate that the proposed parking bay can be safely
accessed by vehicles travelling in a northerly direction, that the parking bay is of a sufficient
size to accommodate a parked vehicle and that the development would not result in highway
danger due to the manoeuvring of vehicles within the highway and the inappropriate parking of vehicles in close proximity to the junction.
The proposed development by virtue of its limited plot size and the need to provide a car
parking space within the site would not provide an acceptable level and quality of private
amenity space for prospective occupiers and accordingly would fail to provide adequate
living conditions contrary to guidance Council’s supplementary planning guidance.

If you can't show car parking on a rural property you will be refused planning permission. But you can also turn this back on the planners and say that residential use would only need 1 or 2 parking spaces but any alternative business use would need more, and have higher traffic movements.

You may need to obtain parking places on other land (not necessarily adjacent, but near enough to be convenient, and legally tied to the property). If you have a parking space but access/turning space is a problem then you can get turntables so avoid reversing out into a main road.

The proposed development is not supported by an appropriate and up-to-date Protected Species Survey and as such the applicant has failed to demonstrate that the proposal will not have an adverse impact on legally protected species.

Googling protected species survey produces lots of results for consultants who do this (for a price). See para 99 of Government Circular 06/2005.

the_matrix

Thank you for your replies.

Itismehonest wrote: »

Reading through the PP this was a religious building on a very small plot of land?

If it is an area without mains water/drainage there may be nowhere to extract water (bore) or for sewage (septic tank or soakaway).

Yes it was a religious building on a small plot of land about 3' wide all the way around!

How do you find out if the area has mains water/sewerage?

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Together with all the surveys and experts he had to hire, it cost him a fortune.

To add insult to injury, the bats don't like their new house and won't live in it.

What other experts do you need to hire and what do they do?

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

You'd need to show that the project would meet local housing needs, by looking at the number of homes in the area coming on to the market, you can get stats on the number of people on the council housing waiting list, etc.

If you can't show car parking on a rural property you will be refused planning permission. But you can also turn this back on the planners and say that residential use would only need 1 or 2 parking spaces but any alternative business use would need more, and have higher traffic movements.

You may need to obtain parking places on other land (not necessarily adjacent, but near enough to be convenient, and legally tied to the property).

Do you just contact the council for housing waiting lists and how much do they charge?

Good thinking with turning the tables on the council.

If I found land (and that's a big if) how do you legally tie the land to the property?

cootuk

I guess if the place has a parish council then you could have a word with them to see what might be acceptable. Is there any adjacent land that could be purchased to make a more viable slot?

Itismehonest

the_matrix wrote: »

Thank you for your replies.



Yes it was a religious building on a small plot of land about 3' wide all the way around!

How do you find out if the area has mains water/sewerage?

Ask a neighbour.
If it isn't on mains then you will have to buy enough adjoining ground in order to bore down for water & to put a septic tank with soakaway (or a sewage plant) in place.
Both cost several thousand pounds depending on many things not least the geology of the area.

Owain_Moneysaver

the_matrix wrote: »

Thank you for your replies.



Yes it was a religious building on a small plot of land about 3' wide all the way around!

How do you find out if the area has mains water/sewerage?

ask local water / sewage undertaking. It's usually stated on the sale particulars if it has services.

the_matrix wrote: »

Do you just contact the council for housing waiting lists and how much do they charge?

Freedom of information act request to the housing dept for the number of people waiting for homes in the area and the house sizes required.

the_matrix wrote: »

Good thinking with turning the tables on the council.

If I found land (and that's a big if) how do you legally tie the land to the property?

You put conditions in the deeds that link the two pieces of land together preventing them being split in future. And the planning application would have this as a condition.

If you need private water and sewage then you will need a sizeable plot of land (field sized - not garden) although you can put a sewage treatment outflow onto someone else's land, or abstract water from same, you will need legal agreements to enable you to do this.