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Living wage
Comments
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And free presciptions! I'm sure food/clothes shopping, pubs etc would be cheaper too. The difference in LMW in the calculation only accounts for the difference in housing costs, if you included other things the difference would probably be greater.grizzly1911 wrote: »Getting closer. Just don't forget that those in "clywd" have other issues that "Westminster" doesn't such as transport and access to facilities e.g. hospitals, schooling and to "affordable" food/clothing shopping.0 -
And free presciptions! I'm sure food/clothes shopping, pubs etc would be cheaper too. The difference in LMW in the calculation only accounts for the difference in housing costs, if you included other things the difference would probably be greater.
Have you tried doing the weekly shop at the convenience store because you can't afford to get anywhere else?
You make the assumption that they can afford or choose to go to the pub, that has probably also closed down."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Where were you referring to? I doubt there are many hypermarkets in Westminster?grizzly1911 wrote: »Have you tried doing the weekly shop at the convenience store because you can't afford to get anywhere else?
I don't make any assumption, I point that out as one of the possible costs, since people on low incomes do sometimes go to the pub. The other assumption is that a single person on NMW would choose to live alone, I certainly wouldn't, I'd live in shared accomodation if I was single and on a low wage. Then I could easily afford to go down the pub :beer:You make the assumption that they can afford or choose to go to the pub, that has probably also closed down.0 -
Imagine you are the Premises Manager of a large office, employing 64 cleaners at £6.08 an hour. Their union leader comes in and demands £8.30 a week. Would your response be the same as mine? I'd tell them that I cannot increase costs by 36.5%. Hence from tomorrow, we will have the office cleaned only 3 days a week. So 40% of hours are lost. It would save me 18% in overall costs.
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Imagine you have a daughter. 18 years old, and unemployed since leaving school at 16. She simply didn't shine at school, messed around, and remains largely uneducated, inarticulate, unimaginative, and lives at home. In a sudden spark of activity, she gets a job at £6.05 an hour and works 40 hours a week on one of the most basic and unskilled jobs going - cleaning.
Hence she brings in an extra £12K a year into the household. £240 a week. Far better than JSA. The girl can now make a significant contribution to her 'room and board', buy a television, mobile phone, a few clothes, and have a social life.
How on earth can this be defined as not a living wage?
OK, so for some reason, the girl cannot now live at home. She needs to rent a room somewhere. Now she screams her wage is not a "living wage".
I cannot think of one single reason why any enterprise (private company or public organisation) should pay more - simply because any member of staff suddenly changes from being able to live on their pay, to not being able to live on it - through no fault whatsoever of the employer.0 -
Loughton_Monkey wrote: »Imagine you are the Premises Manager of a large office, employing 64 cleaners at £6.08 an hour. Their union leader comes in and demands £8.30 a week. Would your response be the same as mine? I'd tell them that I cannot increase costs by 36.5%. Hence from tomorrow, we will have the office cleaned only 3 days a week. So 40% of hours are lost. It would save me 18% in overall costs.
......
Imagine you have a daughter. 18 years old, and unemployed since leaving school at 16. She simply didn't shine at school, messed around, and remains largely uneducated, inarticulate, unimaginative, and lives at home. In a sudden spark of activity, she gets a job at £6.05 an hour and works 40 hours a week on one of the most basic and unskilled jobs going - cleaning.
Hence she brings in an extra £12K a year into the household. £240 a week. Far better than JSA. The girl can now make a significant contribution to her 'room and board', buy a television, mobile phone, a few clothes, and have a social life.
How on earth can this be defined as not a living wage?
OK, so for some reason, the girl cannot now live at home. She needs to rent a room somewhere. Now she screams her wage is not a "living wage".
I cannot think of one single reason why any enterprise (private company or public organisation) should pay more - simply because any member of staff suddenly changes from being able to live on their pay, to not being able to live on it - through no fault whatsoever of the employer.
I agree with your point and example.
NMW doesn't just affect the someone coming into work for the first time it includes people of all ages and positions in life. Stuff can happen to people throughout life."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
I was referring to lots of places in "cheaper parts of the country" that aren't necessarily anywhere near big urban sprawls.Where were you referring to? I doubt there are many hypermarkets in Westminster?
I don't make any assumption, I point that out as one of the possible costs, since people on low incomes do sometimes go to the pub. The other assumption is that a single person on NMW would choose to live alone, I certainly wouldn't, I'd live in shared accomodation if I was single and on a low wage. Then I could easily afford to go down the pub :beer:
You are right on Westminster not having hypermarkets but then I guess not many cleaners live there.
Fair point on young "singles" living alone but NMW affects people of all ages, families, couples etc. There is an argument that singles should be housed in barrack, hostel, workhouse accommodation.
Perhaps we could more some of those prison style ships right up close to The Houses of Parliament maybe."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Which was exactly my earlier point. It's impossible to define a "living wage" which will mean nobody is reliant on benefits, the above will only solve the problem for a very narrow group - single people living alone in expensive areas. What about people who house-share, what about people with a partner in work, what about families, what about single parents with childcare costs, what about people with a disabled partner etc.grizzly1911 wrote: »I was referring to lots of places in "cheaper parts of the country" that aren't necessarily anywhere near big urban sprawls.
You are right on Westminster not having hypermarkets but then I guess not many cleaners live there.
Fair point on young "singles" living alone but NMW affects people of all ages, families, couples etc.
A "living wage" is a meaningless concept - wages can't be related to needs because everyone's needs are different, in some cases vastly different.
From zero (in the case of someone with a partner in a high paid job), to city banker salary levels (for a single parent with 10 disabled kids and high childcare costs).
Or perhaps they could just look through the myriad adverts for house-shares in London. But nice strawmanThere is an argument that singles should be housed in barrack, hostel, workhouse accommodation.
Perhaps we could more some of those prison style ships right up close to The Houses of Parliament maybe.
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Possibly, not have more than one child if your earning potential cannot support it. Or is that too crazy an idea?0
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That is far too crazy an idea. Human rights and all that. Although benefits are being changed so that a 4 bedroom house is the largest that they will pay for. With 2 children of the right age and sex per bedroom someone could have 6 children on benefits and not be overcrowded. Maybe that should be reduced to a 3 bedroom house fully paid for as the maximum thereby supporting a maximum of 4 children. Excess rent can be paid for out of child tax credits.Possibly, not have more than one child if your earning potential cannot support it. Or is that too crazy an idea?:footie:
Regular savers earn 6% interest (HSBC, First Direct, M&S) Loans cost 2.9% per year (Nationwide) = FREE money. 0 -
Possibly, not have more than one child if your earning potential cannot support it. Or is that too crazy an idea?
Confucius, he say "Laws to prevent having more than one child (except in China) is crazy."
Confucius he also say "But not half as crazy as paying people to have the second, third, fourth... or even the first".0
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