[Text removed by MSE Forum Team] Structural Engineer Bad Costly Advice

mojowaky

I was having an extension built; done by a builder who is a member of the Federation of Master Builders. Overall his work was very good.
We wanted to enlarge the opening from both the dining room and kitchen to the new extension. Our builder recommended we get a structural engineer to design and calculate the required steel beams for the 2 openings.
I picked one from yellow pages which gave me a good price.
The engineer from [text removed by MSE Forum Team] came round and measured up and checked the walls and asked me some questions about what I wanted.
After a few emails and phone calls he designed a solution using 2 steel beams measuring 152x152mm.
I gave my builder all the spec of the beams and the concrete padstone that's required to sit underneath the beams as advised by the engineer.
My builder was not happy to fit the steel beams and told me it would be dangerous to fit the beams as they were too small and would not hold the walls up. So spoke to the engineer at [text removed by MSE Forum Team] again, and he advised they were not only large enough and strong enough, but that he added an extra 20% allowance was calculated into the load strength of the beams, for example if I add a dormer loft at a later stage.
However he advised not to put a larger beam as it could overload the wall but I could use a heavier stronger beam of the same size.
So I advised the builder to fit the beams but ones of 30kg a metre and not the 23kg a metre the engineer had originally specified.
Once all the beams had been fitted in a building control inspector from the local council popped by and was horrified with the installation of the beams. She ordered immediate additional support for the walls and ceilings and the beams be taken out and be replaced with larger ones or ones with a steel plate welded to the top flange of the beam to increase the surface area of the steel beam. She noted we had a 3 inch overhang of the wall on the beam and the maximum allowed is only 1 inch.
We are now looking at an additional cost of around £1800 to put in reinforcement, take the beams out, weld metal plates to the beams, and then fit it back in again, essentially doing the job twice.
The engineer is now claiming the builder should have known to weld metal plates to the RSJ beams and that he mentioned it when he came onsite. The engineer didnt mention anything about steel plates to me or the builder. And also the engineer was the one who specified the beams with no mention of steel plates, how can he now blame my builder for this mistake.
Im furious with the engineer his advice has put me out of pocket almost 2k and we were very fortunate it was spotted and will be rectified before any serious injury could take place.

MX5huggy

Did you get a written (Email or otherwise) specification of the beams.

What proffesional body is he a member of? Look at there complaints procedure.

RDG

If the beam spec is in writing then you have a good case if it can be demonstrated that they were insufficient for the job. You can make a claim against the companies PI insurance as this is a proffessional error. How to do this varies but details of this should have been provided to you when you employed them.

You can also complain to thier Institute about them.

If you are unsure of which Institute they are a member of then post up any letters that follow their name on their business card and I will tell you who to contact.


EDIT
I reread your post as I got thinking about this. So the engineer specified 2 beams to run side by side to support the wall above? How is the wall sitting on the 2 beams?
I imagine that a deeper beam wasnt an option due to the floor above.
Now do building control want the plates welded so that the 2 beams are jointed together?

Infact just their name and area will be enough to narrow it down.

mojowaky

The beams were specified with their sizes and weights by email together with the sizes of the concrete padstones and a diagram to show how the padstones are used with the beams, which is what me and my builder went by.
There is no letters or professional bodies mentioned on his invoice or website, and I searched on the institute of structural engineers and could not find a membership for him. There are no letters mention after the name of the engineer in his emails or invoice, and he never gave me a business card. I guess I should have checked this all beforehand.
As for the beams, 2 were specified, 1 for the kitchen opening and one for the dining room opening. In effect they run one after another on the same back wall.
Building control want to see plates welded on top of each beam to increase the surface area of each beam.

RDG

By surface area do you mean the width of the beam? I assume that means that the wall above isnt bareing on them correctly.

With regards membership they could be a member of the ICE (Institute of Civil Engineers).

Have they stated that they are a structural or civil engineer in their correspondance with you? If so then they will need to be a member of an Institute to make such a claim.

PM me the engineers name and I will have a look on the members area search which may yeild better results.


EDIT
The company isnt registered with companies house despite the website which has the same address as the yellow pages saying they are [text removed by MSE Forum Team] Ltd. A call to trading standards may be a good move.

mojowaky

He has stated he is structural engineer in his emails.
In the invoice the company name is
[text removed by MSE Forum Team] Ltd.

RDG

Did he put any letters after his name in his email? Or use the phase chartered structural engineer at any time?

When employing a structural engineer always look for someone who has CEng MIStructE after their name or for Civil Engineers CEng MICE. Both of these are protected by law and therefore are the real deal, if not then the Insitutues do persure people pretending to have those titles.

Anyone can say they are a structural engineer but if they screw up you cant usually take it up with the institute if they are not chartered as they have not actually proven they are competent.

In this case I think it comes down to what the agreement was with them and what written evidence you have.
There is also their designers responsibilities under CDM 2007 which will apply and if what they have instructed the builder to do via the spec is unsafe then the HSE can be involved.
To be honest this is a can of worms as the more I think about the ins and outs of what you can do the more complex it gets.

I dont know if doing the work and then taking them to small claims is the best way forwards but it is a good option based on the info provided.