School abusing dinner money system

fluffnutter

MidLifeCrisis wrote: »

I hate going into the office now so I sent a polite email yesterday asking why the amount had been deducted twice. I've not heard back yet. I'm not going to fight anyone else's battle regarding their deducted payments just my own.

Hopefully you'll get the answers (and a resolution, i.e. your money returned to the dinner money fund) when they respond.

Re. your last point, if you do want to take it further, rather than feeling you're fighting other people's battles for them, you might find that a collective approach is more powerful. If this is happening to other people and you all complain together, then the school's far more likely to take notice.

giraffe69

Schools can ask for a contribution to some elements of a visit and, in theory call it off if all don't pay but in practice the amount is often set slightly high to account for the odd person who refuses.

I would expect any payments I made to got a separate fund even if ParentPay was used so to take it from the dinner money bit sounds strange to put it mildly.

I think I would write to the Head but copy the letter to the Chair of Governors.

This link gives full detail http://www.education.gov.uk/popularquestions/childrenandfamilies/parenting/a005626/can-my-childs-school-charge-for-school-trips-and-educational-visits

and these are the headlines

The school cannot charge when the trip;

is during school hours
is outside of school hours and
part of the National Curriculum
part of a syllabus towards a prescribed public examination the child is being prepared for at the school
The school may, however, ask for voluntary contributions towards the cost.

Parents in receipt of certain benefits may also be exempt from paying any cost of board and lodging.

Flyboy152

MidLifeCrisis wrote: »

Our school uses ParentPay an electronic payment system with separate tick boxes for dinner money and class trips. The relevant trips are listed individually with a brief description and the amount to be paid. The dinner money balance can be topped up by a minimum amount as necessary.

I always pay the ‘voluntary contribution’ for school trips, but cannot transfer money already paid into dinner money to pay for a trip, however, where this is unpaid, or in my case where they have made an error and it has been paid, the school have been deducting these amounts from children’s dinner money. I've obviously raised this with the school office, but wondered what the legal situation is where the school are taking money from the child’s dinner money account to pay for these other ‘voluntary contributions’? Some parents are calling it theft, fraud, etc, but are not sure what to do about it and the head is an unapproachable bully.

I understand that if not everyone pays then the trip won’t go ahead; the DofE site states:

“Headteachers or governing bodies may ask parents for a voluntary contribution towards the cost of: any activity that takes place during school hours; school equipment; general school funds. Children of parents who are unable, or unwilling, to contribute may not be discriminated against. However, if there are insufficient voluntary contributions made to cover the cost of the trip, or activity, and there is no alternative method to make up the shortfall, then the school should cancel the activity.”

I would like to write a letter to the school governors about it and feel it would be helpful to quote the relevant legal facts of the matter.

Thanks

MLC

If they are doing this, then the cost is not voluntary, it is compulsory.

tyllwyd

I think they are on very dodgy ground using money held for one purpose for a completely different purpose. I'm not sure what the correct legal phrase would be, but I would have thought that they are holding the money on trust for the children to be used to pay for their dinners as required. What happens if they raid the dinner money without the parents realising, then when the child goes for their dinner they find they can't pay for it - would they send them home hungry?

Flyboy152

paulofessex wrote: »

Oh l do wish l could find the copy of a letter l sent to our childs school. I sent them details that l obtained from the LEA in relation to if a school trip is part of the National Curriculum there should be no charge at all for parents as funding is provided by the LEA. I am aware that schools have limited funds, however they do try and bend the rules.

In our case l complained due to the school wanting parents to pay £10 (if l recall correctly) for a trip to a local wood which is free entry, and was within walking distance.

OP, l too wouldn't be happy if the school were deducting monies from the dinner money to cover shortfalls etc. Perhaps a group of you parents can approach the school together

I had a similar discussion with Flyboy11's school. They had a trip planned to a local heritage museum. They were asking for ten pounds to cover entry. We have annual passes, but we were told that he was not allowed to use the pass as the museum will not accept them for school parties and would have to stand in a different queue. I called the museum and asked them about their policy for school and passes. They told me they accept the passes and he would not have wait in a different queue. The school party discounted entry starts at twelve children or more and is the same no matter how many more are in the group.

I was very cross, but they still tried to insist that he couldn't use the pass (I didn't let them bully us and he used the pass in the end). I later found out that the entry to the museum was only seven pounds each. :mad:

Flyboy152

fluffnutter wrote: »

What do the school governors think of having an 'unapproachable bully' for a head teacher? Seems a bit worrying to me, or is this just parental school gate chit-chat and opinion?

For many schools, it is par for the course.

Flyboy152

DCodd wrote: »

OP might be worth asking Parentpay about whether the School are bound by any T's & C's with ParentPay regarding the use of funds paid by a parent.

https://www.parentpay.com/Contact-Us/

I always thought that payment transfers could only be initiated by the parent and not the school.

Flyboy152

giraffe69 wrote: »

Schools can ask for a contribution to some elements of a visit and, in theory call it off if all don't pay but in practice the amount is often set slightly high to account for the odd person who refuses.

I would expect any payments I made to got a separate fund even if ParentPay was used so to take it from the dinner money bit sounds strange to put it mildly.

I think I would write to the Head but copy the letter to the Chair of Governors.

This link gives full detail http://www.education.gov.uk/popularquestions/childrenandfamilies/parenting/a005626/can-my-childs-school-charge-for-school-trips-and-educational-visits

and these are the headlines

The school cannot charge when the trip;

is during school hours
is outside of school hours and
part of the National Curriculum
part of a syllabus towards a prescribed public examination the child is being prepared for at the school
The school may, however, ask for voluntary contributions towards the cost.

Parents in receipt of certain benefits may also be exempt from paying any cost of board and lodging.

This argument was done to death a few weeks ago, but suffice to say, schools are not allowed to ask other parents to subsidise those who cannot pay. The cost of non-paying parents are met from a separate budget.