Hays Holiday Pay.

MartynK

Hi All,

I've got a bit of a query regarding my holiday pay. I have only just discovered that I had holiday pay deducted from my wages every week. I appreciate that sounds entirely like I haven't been paying attention to my wage slips, however I have, in my defence been calling hays payroll every other week with pay queries relating to my tax/paid holiday/deductions etc trying to understand what my wage ought to be.

I'm getting £9.53 an hour for 37.5 hours which after my tax/ni etc = 285 ish a week, because I had taken some holiday and I hadn't previously earnt enough to be taxed my wage was pretty much at this figure. Only after my tax started to go out properly did I realise I was loosing money for holiday deductions.

I had spoken to them before about my deductions and because of the way I wasn't paying tax to begin with and then I got some holiday pay paid to me, it always held my wages at the 285 figure so I looked at it and thought, that's the same as listentotaxman.com so its correct. When finally I stopped getting holiday pay did I realise I had misread my payslips.

When I called Hays last week, I finally got told why this is happening, I was told I had holiday pay deducted of my wage so that they can pay it to me when I request paid time off. I said, I'd rather have the money so I can earn interest myself, I was told this is not allowed and its always been like this. At this point I told them this was the first I had heard about it and when I asked back on my first wage slip what it was about, it was explained to me as a mistake when I'd called up several times perviously

Long story short, here is an excerpt of my contract relating to holiday leave.

Statutory Leave
7.1 Under the Working Time Regulations 1998 and the Working Time
(Amendment) Regulations 2007, the Temporary Worker is entitled
pro-rata to 28 days paid statutory leave per annum (inclusive of bank
and public holidays, where the Temporary Worker is permitted to
take such holidays) ("Statutory Leave")

7.2 All entitlement to Statutory Leave must be taken during the
course of the leave year in which it accrues and none may be carried
forward to the next year. (The leave year of the Employment
Business runs from 1 January to 31 December.) Failure to take any
holiday by the end of the holiday year in which the entitlement arises
will result in such outstanding holiday being forfeited.

7.3 Entitlement to payment for Statutory Leave accrues in proportion
to the amount of time worked continuously by the Temporary Worker
on Assignment during the leave year. Payment for leave will reflect
the Temporary Worker’s statutory holiday pay entitlement.

7.4 A Temporary Worker who wishes to take any Statutory Leave to
which he or she is entitled, must give the Employment Business
notice in writing of 1 week for a single day and 2 weeks for more than
one day. Unless the Employment Business informs the Temporary
Worker in writing that it is not permitted for him to take Statutory
Leave on the specified dates, the Temporary Worker shall be entitled
to take up such notified leave entitlement.

7.5 Where this Agreement is terminated by either party and a P45 is
requested, the Temporary Worker shall be entitled to a payment in
lieu of any untaken Statutory Leave where the amount of Statutory
Leave taken is less than the amount accrued in accordance with
clause 7.3 above.

7.6 None of the provisions of this clause regarding the statutory
entitlement to paid leave shall affect the Temporary Worker's status
as a self-employed worker.

I cannot see anything about holiday pay being deducted from my wage, nor at any point was this discussed with me when I when I dealt with my recruiter.
I was simply told I'd be earn £9.53 an hour.

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I'm pretty !!!!ed about it as I've called up so many times asking for help understanding my payslip only to be told that I'll be getting what I should earn after tax deductions/ni/student loan. about 85% of all the calls I made, the staff were useless, some even admitting to not understanding what the £40 holiday deduction was on my payslip, but telling me it was ok because I was being paid properly.

Do I have any sort of options here, or do I just have to suck it up? I kinda feel a bit conned, and I realise I should of understood more when I accepted the job

Sorry for the long first post and thanks for any help people can provide

anamenottaken

You have been conned if you are not being paid £9.53 an hour.
This is what Hays (and some other agencies do) but it is not right - they tell you the rate including the holiday pay which they then deduct in order to make it look as though you are earning more than you are. The holiday pay deduction is so that you can be paid at your regular rate for your holiday, it is not part of your hourly rate.

Russe11

yep, your PAYE hourly rate is actually nearer £8 a hour, rolled up holiday pay is unlawful, but if it clearly states on your pay slips that this deduction is for Holiday entitlement then they can get away with it.

If you have a contract that state your hourly rate is 9.53, and does not explain the way your entitlement to holiday is calculated, i'd be challenging them.

looking through those terms 7.6 would suggest they are classing you as selfemployed, so are you paid through a umbrella company?

What would be helpful is if you gave the figures you get on your payslip.

7.2 must be a unfair term stating that if you don't take your holiday pay you lose it. Like to see them get that one past me.

There people on here that would say they can do this, but i'd just wait till I left and ask for the unlawful deductions to be paid and holiday entitlement on top, then run it through the court system, having successfully done simular before.

The key point is you agreement on the hourly rate, a recorded phone call would be handy here if its not on paper.

They must make quite a nice margin pulling stunts like this, getting a lot less applicants if they actually didn't try and dupe people like this.

MartynK

Heya,

Na i'm not being paid via an umbrella company, I did consider it as some of my colleagues talked about getting petrol allowance tax deductions but it seemed like the amount I'd pay wouldn't benefit what I'd earn.

Sadly I can't post a picture of my latest wageslip. Although hopefully this is enough of a break down

£357.38 Per week @ Rate £9.53

-£39.48 Stat Hol Ded

-£20.75 National Insurance
-£32.60 PAYE
-£1 to -£6 Student Loan (Seems to vary sometimes)

Payment Date - 27/04/2012
Tax Period - 3
Tax Code - 810L
Tax Basis - Cumulative

I was just checking old emails and I found a very brief- congrats you got the job one saying and I quote

RATE: £ 9.53 p/hr (including holiday pay)


Which is a shame as I guess that now covers them. I didn't realise that it mean't that when I first read it. I thought I got that and I got paid on holidays (obviously X amount per year), not that they would take it out my wage.
But I guess now after spending time in this I realise this is what was implied.
I'm just v annoyed it wasn't explained to me properly when I rang up countless times and I had members of their own staff saying they didn't understand the breakdown of my wage slip.

Kynthia

At least you'll get the deductions paid back to you when you take leave. Just make sure you apply for it as instructed and keep track of what you've requested and when. You don't want to lose any by not claiming for it all.

Russe11

No employers NI shown on the wage slip?

Does it state you have set contracted hours anywhere?

Rolled up holiday pay should have the hourly rate shown and the holiday element seperately, but they would get away with it if it came to a ET.

Unlikely Hays would go bust and you would lose you entitlement they withhold, but I doubt it actually exsists in the ringfenced sense apart from number on a screen, hence why they require 2 weeks notice for more than a day. If you was paid holiday the "normal" way, then you would not be accuring interest so you end up getting the same. The only point in the contract that contradicts they way the operate is 7.2, the pay slip claims they have paid you it, its yours, i've not have the exact point in court before but simular and it was ruled in my favor. It can't just disappear like they claim.

LittleVoice

Russe11 wrote: »

yep, your PAYE hourly rate is actually nearer £8 a hour, rolled up holiday pay is unlawful, but if it clearly states on your pay slips that this deduction is for Holiday entitlement then they can get away with it.

If you have a contract that state your hourly rate is 9.53, and does not explain the way your entitlement to holiday is calculated, i'd be challenging them.

looking through those terms 7.6 would suggest they are classing you as selfemployed, so are you paid through a umbrella company? Unless they are actually employees of the agency (as I am), it's the way agency workers have to be treated - HMRC require that the agency deduct tax and NI and pay employers NI but the agency worker is still "self-employed" - on a contract for services (not on an employment contract of service) but not in a position to claim travel expenses to get to the workplace (unlike the normal situation with self-employment).

What would be helpful is if you gave the figures you get on your payslip.

7.2 must be a unfair term stating that if you don't take your holiday pay you lose it. Like to see them get that one past me. Not an unfair term at all - it's the law! Statutory holiday (which this is) has to be taken in the year or is forfeited (except in exceptional circumstances which we won't go into here).

There people on here that would say they can do this, but i'd just wait till I left and ask for the unlawful deductions to be paid and holiday entitlement on top, then run it through the court system, having successfully done simular before.

The key point is you agreement on the hourly rate, a recorded phone call would be handy here if its not on paper.

They must make quite a nice margin pulling stunts like this, getting a lot less applicants if they actually didn't try and dupe people like this.

..........................

LittleVoice

Russe11 wrote: »

No employers NI shown on the wage slip? Employers NI is not required to be shown on payslip.

Does it state you have set contracted hours anywhere?

Rolled up holiday pay should have the hourly rate shown and the holiday element seperately, but they would get away with it if it came to a ET.

Unlikely Hays would go bust and you would lose you entitlement they withhold, but I doubt it actually exsists in the ringfenced sense apart from number on a screen, hence why they require 2 weeks notice for more than a day. If you was paid holiday the "normal" way, then you would not be accuring interest so you end up getting the same. The only point in the contract that contradicts they way the operate is 7.2, the pay slip claims they have paid you it, its yours, No. The payslip says it's been earned. i've not have the exact point in court before but simular and it was ruled in my favor. It can't just disappear like they claim.

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