ESA - WRAG to Support Group

zippy1969

Hi.

My friend has just recently had to attend the Job Centre for an interview regarding her ESA claim. They told her it was now mandatory that she had to embark on a 'back to work programme' of some sort. She's now waiting for something through the post regarding an appointment. They told her this is because she is in the Work Related Activity Group and not the Support Group. She said she felt 'bullied' by the person she saw and they showed no empathy with her situation. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to attend with her.

She's also just received an ESA50 form as her claim is a year old now and the DWP told us this is standard practice to check on her claim and make sure she is in the right group.

Since the interview, she has been very upset, anxious, not sleeping or eating properly and her OCD has been horrendous.

She is going to see her GP this week and will ask him for a letter supporting a move from the WRAG to the Support Group. Is this possible?

If she does move, will she get the same amount of money? She gets the 'Severe Disability Premium', the 'Disability Income Guarantee' and the extra payment for being in the WRAG. She is on income-based ESA.

Thanks if anyone can help.

hannah899

im not to sure about the letter, may go either way.
I suffer from agrophobia sociophobia and my doctor wrote me a supporting letter detailing this and it explaining that my mental capacity to socialise with people face to face was extremely limited and cause immenent depression. My mum has to ring everybody and anybody that i need like the doctors, benefiits etc and i wont leave the house without anybody and when i do its only to certain place like my nans house mums house and when i go shopping it has to be at times when its nearlyempty. i got put on the WRAG. on the letter it does say......."you are required to attend and take part in work focused interview to coninue to recieve your benefit. or it may be reduced. however work focused interviews may be deferred if there are good reasons as to why it is not appropriate or of no assistence."

I think you may get abit more on support but not completely sure of that either.
HTH

rogerblack

She would get some more money.
However.
It is mandatory that you go to the work-focussed interviews, if required to.
You get ESA50s regularly.

She should understand what the criteria are for the support group, and gather all evidence she can for those.
https://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/m-06-11.pdf - see page 13 and on.

A note from her doctor saying she should be in the support group will be completely ignored unless it specifically addresses why, - either referring to one or more of the above descriptors, or that there will be a severe risk to her health if she is not found to be in the support group.

zippy1969

rogerblack wrote: »

She should understand what the criteria are for the support group, and gather all evidence she can for those.
www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/m-06-11.pdf - see page 13 and on.

A note from her doctor saying she should be in the support group will be completely ignored unless it specifically addresses why, - either referring to one or more of the above descriptors, or that there will be a severe risk to her health if she is not found to be in the support group.

Thanks for that.

I've been looking back at the evidence we sent in for her appeal. Her GP wrote a report, signed, stamped and dated, that specifically stated each of the descriptors for the 'Support Group' and then he put his comments next to each one stating why she met each of the descriptors. It was a very detailed report. In his opinion, she actually met five of the descriptors...but was placed in the WRAG.

I've found the 'Support Group' descriptors here (from another thread):

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/esa/lcwra

Looking at the report her GP wrote, she met, and still meets 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14, but only has to meet one to qualify for the 'Support Group.'

Why was this overlooked?

Muttleythefrog

Sounds like an unfortunate experience of a back to work interview... which for most people seem to being reported as very low key/easy going. But she shouldn't stress... they can't force her to seek work or do work or seek medication or the like... she's just got unlucky with the advisor by the sounds of it. These interviews are limited in number to 6 I understand... if she gets moved to Support group they'll stop anyway. Back to work programme.. yes that may be required and compulsarily so if remaining in WRAG.

She's being re-assessed it seems. Typically people are reassessed every 6 months to couple years... and in WRAG probably 6-12 months is extremely common.

The ESA50... if she has access to a printer then I'd advise filling the PDF version in because re-assessment is going to be regular and so you could save much duplication. Otherwise do take a photocopy for next time. http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@money/documents/digitalasset/dg_195544.pdf (save copy to local computer before filling in otherwise changes won;t get saved).

Now. Suppling evidence with the ESA50 is perhaps going to be important. If the aim is support group then information relevant in the ESA50 to support group criteria is important and ideally supporting medical evidence. She could indeed get a letter from GP but it's only worth doing if the information is corresponding to information being looked at in testing whether descriptors apply. There is a document called an ESA113 that GPs are sometimes requested by ATOS HC to complete (especially if they intend to try to provide advice to DWP without requirement for face to face medical). You may feel this is a convenient document form to get relevant information from GP. (http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/esa113-interactive.pdf).

If she gets moved to Support Group I think the only difference in her case will be a few extra quid for Support Gp rather than WRAG as it sounds like she is getting the premiums based on DLA High rate care award.

Muttleythefrog

zippy1969 wrote: »

Thanks for that.

I've been looking back at the evidence we sent in for her appeal. Her GP wrote a report, signed, stamped and dated, that specifically stated each of the descriptors for the 'Support Group' and then he put his comments next to each one stating why she met each of the descriptors. It was a very detailed report. In his opinion, she actually met five of the descriptors...but was placed in the WRAG.

Wow... good GPs do exist..lol. I must admit that sounds like mighty powerful evidence and I wonder why a tribunal wasn't persuaded.... was the evidence rejected on grounds of timing..i.e. may not have applied at time of the decision being appealed.

zippy1969

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

She could indeed get a letter from GP but it's only worth doing if the information is corresponding to information being looked at in testing whether descriptors apply.

Thanks for a very useful post.

The report that she got from her GP that formed part of her appeal specifically stated the descriptors for the 'Support Group' and the GP gave evidence for each one outlining why my friend met these FIVE descriptors.

She was still placed in the WRAG though???

zippy1969

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

Wow... good GPs do exist..lol. I must admit that sounds like mighty powerful evidence and I wonder why a tribunal wasn't persuaded.... was the evidence rejected on grounds of timing..i.e. may not have applied at time of the decision being appealed.

No, she was awarded 'zero' points from her ATOS medical and then we immediately appealed. It never went to a tribunal...it was a reconsideration. Yet it seems they ignored the evidence her GP put forward for the 'Support Group.'

Here's a snippet from the report the GP wrote, just to give you an idea (relates to descriptor 14.):

14. Appropriateness of behaviour with other people, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder

Has, on a daily basis, uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace.

GP comments: If Miss. xxxxxxxxxx is required to change her routine, she becomes agitated and anxious leading to some aggressive tendencies. Change to routine is something that is required in the workplace. Miss. xxxxxxxxxx does not, at present, have the flexibility due to her current state of mental health to adapt to such changes.

Muttleythefrog

zippy1969 wrote: »

No, she was awarded 'zero' points from her ATOS medical and then we immediately appealed. It never went to a tribunal...it was a reconsideration. Yet it seems they ignored the evidence her GP put forward for the 'Support Group.'

Here's a snippet from the report the GP wrote, just to give you an idea (relates to descriptor 14.):

14. Appropriateness of behaviour with other people, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder

Has, on a daily basis, uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace.

GP comments: If Miss. xxxxxxxxxx is required to change her routine, she becomes agitated and anxious leading to some aggressive tendencies. Change to routine is something that is required in the workplace. Miss. xxxxxxxxxx does not, at present, have the flexibility due to her current state of mental health to adapt to such changes.

Grrr getting myself confused... editing replies.

So appealed decision that not eligible for ESA. Reconsideration was WRAG.

Should have appealed against that new decision IMO if there was good GP evidence of support gp criteria. The DWP had already effectively rejected the ATOS HC medical report which is usually the backbone of their case at appeal.

zippy1969

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

Grrr getting myself confused... editing replies.

So appealed decision that not eligible for ESA. Reconsideration was WRAG.

Should have appealed against that new decision IMO if there was good GP evidence of support gp criteria. The DWP had already effectively rejected the ATOS HC medical report which is usually the backbone of their case at appeal.

Yes. Applied for ESA. Scored zero points from assessment with ATOS. Appealed with report from GP. Reconsideration given and awarded ESA, placed in WRAG.

I helped her through all of this and have to be honest, once she got the award, we didn't pay much attention to the group she was placed into. However, the more I look at this, the more it seems she should have been placed in the 'Support Group.' When we phoned DWP to see why the ESA50 had been sent, the lady we spoke to clearly said it's to review the case and to see if she is in the right group. I have the exact day, date and time of the call.

You're right though...she should have appealed the WRAG...but as I said, once she got ESA, this got overlooked. To be honest, she isn't looking for 'back-pay' from not being in 'Support Group', she just wants to be placed into that group from now.

Muttleythefrog

zippy1969 wrote: »

You're right though...she should have appealed the WRAG...but as I said, once she got ESA, this got overlooked. To be honest, she isn't looking for 'back-pay' from not being in 'Support Group', she just wants to be placed into that group from now.

Got ya. Now seems a good time to go for it. I'd use the additional info section of the ESA50 to cover support group descriptors not otherwise covered in the standard form questions that may apply... and any special circumstance criteria too... for example... it is conceivable that the special circs applies just given what you have quoted as part of what GP said... 'would pose significant risk to any person should they be found capable of work related activity'. I actually get into Support Gp currently under that special circs criteria and my opinion is that it is for very similar reasons to how your friend may... because of OCD/OCPD I will do anything I can morally justify that makes people conform to my ordering of reality... in the workplace this means manipulation of people and plotting of their murder if necessary to get them out of the way... being nasty would be standard for any non compliance..lol. (Rather inevitable my last job I lasted in I was tasked with creating the quality system and making people comply..lol). But anyway.. yes this is perhaps the chance to target supprot group. I'd be tempted to include that GP report as evidence and quote directly from it into the ESA50 form where relevant. Ideally you'd get an updated equivalent document so any issues of timing of evidence are overcome.

The lady on the phone like many if not most regarding DWP and ESA isn't entirely accurate. THis is a reassessment of entitlement to main phase.. it is a work capability assessment... it is possible they'll decide neither group applies... so this isn't a case of 'to see if she is in the right group'...it's a little more than that! Whether she is called for a face to face medical by ATOS HC is up in the air... I suspect that they may given that the previous medical report was in effect disregarded by the DWP to give WRAG decision.