Spain .. "In huge crisis"

coastline

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Unemployment figures are calculated internationally using the same definitions.

The official unemployment rate measures the same thing in different countries.

If the UK unemployment rate is under 8%, and Spain's is 24%, then that is a good indicator of just how much better off economically the UK is at the moment.

You can get into all sorts of irrelevancies in trying to measure the economically inactive like housewives and students, but the simple fact is that not everyone without a job wants one or needs one, so it's a bit pointless.

I think you'll find during the Thatcher era people were moved onto sickness benefit purely to make the dole figures look better for the media...
We have over 3m still claiming this benefit...right or wrong...
Over the last decade the numbers of young people going to university have grown rapidly from hunderds of thousands to nearly 2 million...
The government are entitled to present the unemployed number at 2.5m..8%...but its up to yourself if you believe it...
Over the last 30 years we've had a situation where companies have used the final salary pension schemes to allow people to retire early...together with enhanced redundancy packages..
It was a convenient way of reducing the industrial workforces..
These final salary schemes are now being closed at a rapid rate so this situation won't be available in future..
These groups of people go a long way to making up our inactive count...2.5m dole...3m sick...2m university...early retired over 50yo..
Not that I'm saying we are better or worse off than Spain...as I dont know...but we have millions of unemployed people ..

ash28

coastline wrote: »

I think you'll find during the Thatcher era people were moved onto sickness benefit purely to make the dole figures look better for the media...
We have over 3m still claiming this benefit...right or wrong...
Over the last decade the numbers of young people going to university have grown rapidly from hunderds of thousands to nearly 2 million...
The government are entitled to present the unemployed number at 2.5m..8%...but its up to yourself if you believe it...
Over the last 30 years we've had a situation where companies have used the final salary pension schemes to allow people to retire early...together with enhanced redundancy packages..
It was a convenient way of reducing the industrial workforces..
These final salary schemes are now being closed at a rapid rate so this situation won't be available in future..
These groups of people go a long way to making up our inactive count...2.5m dole...3m sick...2m university...early retired over 50yo..
Not that I'm saying we are better or worse off than Spain...as I dont know...but we have millions of unemployed people ..

I think you'll find that Spain uses the ILO measaure for unemployment, we do and so does most of the developed world. The measures used are the same across the countries.

The inactive group in Spain will be made up of the type of people that it is here.

The employment rate is calculated by dividing the number of persons aged 15 to 64 in employment by the total population of the same age group.

Do you think we are the only country with early retired or sick or disabled etc.

Spain has an employment of 57% - so just over half of population between 15 and 64 are in work - and we know half of the rest are unemployed - so who makes the inactive? The same people who make up our inactive population. We don't have a monoply on sick or disabled or early retired or housewives etc.

We have an employment rate of nearly 70% - so over 2/3 of 15 to 64 year olds are in work - we know 8.5% are unemployed - and we know the rest is made up the sick, the disabled, the housewives, the early retired, students etc.

There are countries with a better employment rate but there are countres with a lot worse - Turkey for instance it's about 48%.

Here is a map from Eurostat who publish the data - bear in mind the measures are the same across all the countries listed and the groups that make up economically inactive are the same too.

There are quite a number of countries that have a much lower percentage of the working age population in work - I know that's hard to believe...

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/mapToolClosed.do?tab=map&init=1&plugin=1&language=en&pcode=tsiem010&toolbox=types

[Deleted User]

the sobering thought is that 25% unemployed here would equal around 7.5 million people,my bet is that no coalition govt in the uk could survive on a figure above 4 million,it would simply implode

Loughton_Monkey

Spain need not worry. In less than 2 weeks, I shall be sunning myself on a leisurely tour throughout the country, for the following 8 weeks. [This, by the way, will explain a diminution of the common sense on these boards during that period while I fail to post.]

I suspect good bargains will be available. Discounts for cash! But I will be dropping a few thousand € into their economy, thus increasing pressure on the sad British balance of payments. Not least, I will bring back several cases of British Made Gordon's Gin [and a bit of Rioja no doubt] which is surprisingly cheap over there. I'd much rather pay €3 a bottle tax to Spain, than €13 a bottle tax to Mr Osbourne.

The weather will be far, far, better than here, and the girls are somewhat prettier. I can smoke in a lot of bars and restaurants. And best of all, I will not have Murdoch, Leveson, London 2012, or Harriett 'lower the age of consent to 14' Harperson, rammed down my throat.

Large gin & tonics all round......

Mrs_Bones

woodbine wrote: »

the sobering thought is that 25% unemployed here would equal around 7.5 million people,my bet is that no coalition govt in the uk could survive on a figure above 4 million,it would simply implode

I've maintained for a while that 3 million official unemployed is a danger point for any UK government, memories still run deep from last time. Most people realise our actual unemployment figure is already way beyond 3 million but the numbers are fudged in numerous ways. If we ever see the official unemployment figure get close to that amount I'd expect the government to go in to reverse on any welfare reform.

Graham_Devon

Well Spain is officially back in recession as of this morning.

shortchanged_2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well Spain is officially back in recession as of this morning.

What surprises me is that with the dire level of unemployment etc that they have only recorded a fall of 0.3%. That only just tops the UK's efforts.

coastline

Mrs_Bones wrote: »

I've maintained for a while that 3 million official unemployed is a danger point for any UK government, memories still run deep from last time. Most people realise our actual unemployment figure is already way beyond 3 million but the numbers are fudged in numerous ways. If we ever see the official unemployment figure get close to that amount I'd expect the government to go in to reverse on any welfare reform.

I'd personally like to see the working week cut throughout the world...hard to see it happen but young people need hope...and by looking at the excellent reasearch done on this thread we need something...
How you get world leaders to think of a gradual reduction in working hours I've no idea...I'd be suprised if its even on the agenda..
I'd even bring in optional retiement from 60 yo on state pension... again it looks a non starter.....

Mrs_Bones

coastline wrote: »

I'd personally like to see the working week cut throughout the world...hard to see it happen but young people need hope...and by looking at the excellent reasearch done on this thread we need something...
How you get world leaders to think of a gradual reduction in working hours I've no idea...I'd be suprised if its even on the agenda..
I'd even bring in optional retiement from 60 yo on state pension... again it looks a non starter.....

I agree, the working week needs to be rethought through, how people work, when and the amount of hours. The whole lot needs to be looked at afresh and a radical change in direction is needed.

Can not see it happening any time soon though. Many people, including most governments are still operating on a 1950's mind set of full employment for everyone. In fact they've extended this idea to women as well as men now and push the pension age up at the same time. Then governments are standing around scratching their heads wondering why unemployment is going up and what to do about all the young.

Yes we can blame some of the unemployment on the recession and we can continue to shove the young in to staying on in education for a while. Sooner or later though we are going to have to recognise the fact that the 1950's model of work is bust. The worlds population is expanding at an ever increasing rate. Technology and progress has meant that many jobs simply don't need the same amount of manpower any more. The idea of full employment for life for everyone is rapidly becoming extinct.

chucky

shortchanged wrote: »

What surprises me is that with the dire level of unemployment etc that they have only recorded a fall of 0.3%. That only just tops the UK's efforts.

The Spanish economy is a bit more complex and that -0.3% could be much higher or even much lower with the size of the black economy.