Infrared Heating Panels....Again!

Cardew

jeffwood wrote: »

So we covered the efficient part,

Yet again we have a first time poster promoting a product.

We are requested to be nice to first time posters, so shall we just say that your post is wrong in many ways.

Firstly you have underestimated the efficiency of 'your heaters' at 90% as they are in fact 100% efficient.

There is not even one heater that actually can convert into heat 100% of the
energy that it consumes.

In fact every electrical heater from heaters costing £thousands to your granny's 1/2/3 bar heater is 100% efficient at producing heat.

No less a person than Albert Einstein proclaimed:

“Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to
another.”

So the energy(electrical in this case) is all turned into heat. For it to be only 90% or less, some energy would have to be destroyed - which would upset Einstein!!

chris1973

My leaving room is 5m x 4m x 2.4m and i use a Welltherm panel of 780W output

Using a room heat input calculator http://www.qvsdirect.com/kW-Heating-Calculator-p-50.html

An averagely insulated Living area of those dimensions with double glazing requires between 1950 to 2350 watts of heat input in order to heat it. The physics of that will not change just because you have bought a 'special' heater or you want to save money by inputting less physical heat energy into it

Those requirements will also remain the same, whether you burn Electricity, Gas, Paraffin, Oil, Peat or Horse Manure. True a less efficient gas boiler may need to burn 3kw worth of gas in order to produce that 2.3kw of heat due to losses through the flue etc, but the room requirement doesnt change.

With smaller heaters the only purpose they serve is to spot heat. So for example a 800w Halogen Heater will not heat a living area, however you would probably be comfortable with it a few feet away directing heat at you on the Sofa. To demonstrate this, put the same heater 15 feet away at the other end of the room, and see how warm you feel!, (2 hours later I bet you are still cold)

Equally, I can feel comfortably warm from using just 250w worth of Electricity - its called a heated throw and having my feet in a heated foot warmer - I wouldn't expect it to heat a room though, nor come on the forum advising that it could.

fishybusiness

You feel the heat faster because it heats you directly and not the air. Similar with what the sun does. So if you have a heater that heats the air and you open your window then all of the heat will gone

I'm not sure of the 'feel the heat faster' part, and to be honest, would it matter as most of us like a steady state temperature. You can definitely feel the sunshine effect within 5 minutes of switch on.

Certainly, the open window part is true, when in close proximity to the panels, but if left open, the air does get a chill.

Personally I think it due to the 100% effect :j

An averagely insulated Living area

There is no such thing.

Equally, I can feel comfortably warm from using just 250w worth of Electricity - its called a heated throw and having my feet in a heated foot warmer - I wouldn't expect it to heat a room though, nor come on the forum advising that it could.

Your point being?

prosaver

here. this explains
http://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/commercial_heating/radiant_heating_explained.htm
enjoy

DevCoder

prosaver wrote: »

here. this explains
http://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/commercial_heating/radiant_heating_explained.htm
enjoy

Hmm

The heaters transmit harmless infra-red radiant energy, like the sun, that turns into heat only when it comes into contact with a solid object i.e. people. So you’re heating the atmosphere or having the heat blown away in the wind – unlike outdoor gas heaters.

Surely there should be a "not" in that last sentence?

andrew3

Re: Infrared panels. I recently had a quote to fit all my house with infrared panels £10,500. Went on ebay and bought one. £180 for a 600w panel to try them out. Fitted in my living room (with a thermostat). Living room is 20 foot by 15 foot. Panel works fine. Cozy warmth when you are sitting or standing. If you move round it feels colder because the air in the room hasn't warmed up as it would with a convector - so it must be taking less energy to reach a comfortable warmth. I'm impressed so far, especially as I am currently on oil. On ebay a German company is now advertising them even cheaper, so initial outlay could be even less.

Richie-from-the-Boro

andrew3 wrote: »

Re: Infrared panels. I recently had a quote to fit all my house with infrared panels £10,500. Went on ebay and bought one. £180 for a 600w panel to try them out. Fitted in my living room (with a thermostat). Living room is 20 foot by 15 foot. Panel works fine. Cozy warmth when you are sitting or standing. If you move round it feels colder because the air in the room hasn't warmed up as it would with a convector - so it must be taking less energy to reach a comfortable warmth. I'm impressed so far, especially as I am currently on oil. On ebay a German company is now advertising them even cheaper, so initial outlay could be even less.

Good for you first time poster andrew3, and welcome to MSE !

Realsimy

Are you all missing a trick here.
Thermodynamic law!
Any warm body will equalise to the surrounding mass in this case air.
The IR panels may heat the fabric or the person but the cooler air in which they sit will draw the energy away to equalise. If you don't heat the air you will just cool down faster.
It's simple!
Unless you live in a vacume.......

lstar337

John_MacLeod wrote: »

Many years ago a senior electricity board engineer made the point to me that for comfort it's not necessary to have the air temperature high -- but it does matter. Below 50ºF/10ºC you won't feel comfortable under any circumstances, but if you can get the air temperature up to that level AND are located in either a beam of radiant heat or a current of warm air you can be very comfortable.

Infra red panels CAN raise the air temperature by indirect means -- warming solid surfaces which in turn warm the air. But they're not necessarily very efficient at that. What they excel at is warming people.

If you're using an infra red panel as the sole means of warming a room you need not only a master switch but a thermostat and a proximity or motion detector wired in parallel, to ensure that when the system is on for that room it maintains the heating until the room temperature reaches 10ºC and then turns it off UNLESS the proximity or motion detector recognises the presence of someone in the room.

Many years ago a senior forum member made the point to me that for comfort it's not necessary to have your post written all in bold.

So please make it easier on my eyes, and only use bold text to highlight a word or phrase.

gehngus_2

Wow. Lots going on here.
I have some of these on the wall in certain rooms and cieling mounted in others.
But I also have economy 7 in rooms constantly used such as living room.
If the infra red panels are used in the right way they save a fortune.
this is because they reach full heat in seconds.
I have some rooms that are hardly used. I.e kids games room. Maybe an hour a day. Theres no point heating this room prior to play. Its too ranndom.
instead I have a ceiling panel wired to a pir.
the heater comes on when they play and swithes off when they leave. It gives a nice warm feeling. It takes power while on than some heaters but is only on a fraction of the time and always when needed.
this is just one example. I also use them in my coffee shop on pir. They cost absolutely nothing to run if the table is not occupied.
Its more about managing the energy than heating an empty room for less.
hope this helps.