Duplicate Transactions on Bank Account

takuhii

Hi,
I would really appreciated some help and/or advice on this matter guys. I'm not sure where else to look for this type of information

I am with Natwest, and need some help tracking down a problem I am now seeing quite regularly on my bank account...

Basically over the last two weeks every transaction I have made with my debit card has been duplicated. Now I could understand fraudulent activity, but this is in three seperate shops, let me explain.

On the 16th April I spent 60.10 on Petrol. This went out straight away. Then on the 19th April the same amount (60.10) went out again. The same happened with a transaction on the 20th April for 22.50, it was then "taken" again on the 23rd, without my approval.

Now these secondary amounts are always held in limbo, they never clear but I am without the funds until whomever gives it back.

NOW it gets weird. I have approached the vendors involved and they have no record of these secondary transactions.

Has anyone seen this activity before on a bank account. It's driving me insane, as I am without the funds until they come back, the bank won't do anything about it because the transaction is pending, but Visa Debit say it's nothing to do with them, how are these problems occurring and why does my bank account want to see me penniless every week. The first time this happened I had to borrow money to cover the loss, as I still had bills to pay.

ANY help would be greatly appreciated guys
Darren

agrinnall

It sounds like a pre-auth is being done before the real authorisation goes through, and for some reason the pre-auth is not dropping off at the time, only later. The funds don't actually come out of your account but you are prevented from accessing the money.

I can think of two causes for this: either a fault at NatWest, or the 3 retailers all use the same merchant acquirer and it's a problem there. It seems unlikely that it would be an issue specifically with your card/account, although unfortunate coincidence is a possibility.

Do you withdraw money from ATMs with the card? If so have those transactions been OK? That would almost certainly rule out a problem with your card/account, but the authorisation process for purchases goes through a different route.

takuhii

agrinnall wrote: »

It sounds like a pre-auth is being done before the real authorisation goes through, and for some reason the pre-auth is not dropping off at the time, only later. The funds don't actually come out of your account but you are prevented from accessing the money.

I can think of two causes for this: either a fault at NatWest, or the 3 retailers all use the same merchant acquirer and it's a problem there. It seems unlikely that it would be an issue specifically with your card/account, although unfortunate coincidence is a possibility.

Do you withdraw money from ATMs with the card? If so have those transactions been OK? That would almost certainly rule out a problem with your card/account, but the authorisation process for purchases goes through a different route.

Hi, thanks for the quick response.

It could be a merchant acquirer, as most of the retailers where I live use Barclays. But then that would be everywhere I shop.

I don't tend to withdraw money from ATMs, everything is done with the plastic with me, more protection that way (or so I thought). If I do use an ATM I use the indoor ones though, and those transactions have been ok (I used an ATM ONCE this month).

I am hoping this stops soon, or at least doesn't affect my direct debits, as my mortgage goes out soon and if they duplicate that I will be wiped out

Mikeyorks

They're essentially 'phantom' transactions. Usually created where a card is removed from the till prematurely or the transmission breaks before fully complete etc.

To get one is relatively unusual - to get two is extremely bizarre ...... to get three! And - in particular - as you suggest there is a date delay between the real transaction and the phantom. As virtually all phantom transactions - that I've ever heard of / experienced - are created within seconds of the real transactions.

No logic explains it. If - unusually - they are all the same merchant acquirer then they have had processing issues spread over several days? Pretty unusual. I can't think how it could be physically related to your card - and it can't be your account.

If it happens again ...... get your Bank to trace the phantom one and ask searching questions?

I have approached the vendors involved and they have no record of these secondary transactions

Typically they won't ..... unless the card has been pulled early and the transaction repeated. Which you would know about. Most such duplications only show at the merchant acquirer level.

takuhii

Mikeyorks wrote: »

They're essentially 'phantom' transactions. Usually created where a card is removed from the till prematurely or the transmission breaks before fully complete etc.

To get one is relatively unusual - to get two is extremely bizarre ...... to get three! And - in particular - as you suggest there is a date delay between the real transaction and the phantom. As virtually all phantom transactions - that I've ever heard of / experienced - are created within seconds of the real transactions.

No logic explains it. If - unusually - they are all the same merchant acquirer then they have had processing issues spread over several days? Pretty unusual. I can't think how it could be physically related to your card - and it can't be your account.

If it happens again ...... get your Bank to trace the phantom one and ask searching questions?



Typically they won't ..... unless the card has been pulled early and the transaction repeated. Which you would know about. Most such duplications only show at the merchant acquirer level.

Cheers for the response guys, it's nice to know that people are aware of this, it's knowing what to do about it I guess. I've requested a new card, in case mine has developed a fault that renders it dodgy in CHIP+PIN machines.

My bank are useless though, they won't do anything about it.

agrinnall

I've reread your post and I think I hadn't fully appreciated the time delay between the original and repeat transactions, which means it's unlikely to be a pre-auth issue. It could be what Mike says but I would also expect phantom transactions to appear closer in time to the originals.

I think you need to pursue this more vigorously with NatWest. If you've reported it in a branch they are not likely to be able to answer this, you'll need to go through customer services and ask them to escalate it - I suspect it will need to go to at least second level support, and in all probabilty to the third level IT team responsible for supporting debit card transactions.

takuhii

agrinnall wrote: »

I've reread your post and I think I hadn't fully appreciated the time delay between the original and repeat transactions, which means it's unlikely to be a pre-auth issue. It could be what Mike says but I would also expect phantom transactions to appear closer in time to the originals.

I think you need to pursue this more vigorously with NatWest. If you've reported it in a branch they are not likely to be able to answer this, you'll need to go through customer services and ask them to escalate it - I suspect it will need to go to at least second level support, and in all probabilty to the third level IT team responsible for supporting debit card transactions.

OK, i guess I'll keep pestering Natwest Cheers for everyone's help

stclair

takuhii wrote: »

OK, i guess I'll keep pestering Natwest Cheers for everyone's help

This is very common maybe try getting requesting a new card and see if it makes any difference.

The newer cards have different chips in them now as oposed to the older cards.

takuhii

stclair wrote: »

This is very common maybe try getting requesting a new card and see if it makes any difference.

The newer cards have different chips in them now as oposed to the older cards.

Thanks StClair
I have requested a new card, but my card is only a couple of years old One thing I did notice was that the metal on the chip wore off really quickly on my existing card. hopefully the new one will turn up soon

Again, thank you all.

Agricolae

My personal recommendation (which it seems like you've done already) is:
1. Call NatWest customer services again.
2. Ask them to go through to their card authorisations department. Tell them the last 4 digits of the relevant card number, the dates and amounts of the offending transactions. Ask that they find out the approval codes from the transactions, the method used to put them through, and the exact time they were authorised. The agent will then put you on hold, ring the appropriate department and come back (hopefully) with the information.
3. Do not let them put you through to anything that sounds like a "Visa Debit Helpdesk" as it will be a waste of time.

It might be worth noting that Barclays have been having system problems lately which have affected their business customers. I don't know if it's gone as far as causing issues with merchant acquiring but it's a point to consider.

I can think of one scenario when a duplicate transaction would suddenly show up several days later.

Let's say you use your card at a small shop where the staff don't understand their merchant terminals (of which they have two) that well. You pay for the goods and leave. For whatever reason the transaction was actually put through twice due to a system error. The terminal notices the error and goes out of service. Because there is another terminal in the shop, the staff just use that one for the rest of the day and ignore the fault.

At the end of the day, the staff forget to do their daily reconciliation of the terminals (i.e. upload all the transactions carried out that day to their acquirer to make sure they've received all transactions processed that day).

Two nights later they are able to fix the fault with the terminal and they carry out their reconciliation. Stored in the terminal's memory are your original transaction which was authorised at the time, and the duplicate which has been stored as an "offline" transaction. The reconciliation program notices the discrepancy and retrospectively authorises the payment, resulting in a pending transaction showing on your NatWest account.

This is all highly unlikely but theoretically possible.

takuhii

Agricolae wrote: »

My personal recommendation (which it seems like you've done already) is:
1. Call NatWest customer services again.
2. Ask them to go through to their card authorisations department. Tell them the last 4 digits of the relevant card number, the dates and amounts of the offending transactions. Ask that they find out the approval codes from the transactions, the method used to put them through, and the exact time they were authorised. The agent will then put you on hold, ring the appropriate department and come back (hopefully) with the information.
3. Do not let them put you through to anything that sounds like a "Visa Debit Helpdesk" as it will be a waste of time.

It might be worth noting that Barclays have been having system problems lately which have affected their business customers. I don't know if it's gone as far as causing issues with merchant acquiring but it's a point to consider.

I can think of one scenario when a duplicate transaction would suddenly show up several days later.

Let's say you use your card at a small shop where the staff don't understand their merchant terminals (of which they have two) that well. You pay for the goods and leave. For whatever reason the transaction was actually put through twice due to a system error. The terminal notices the error and goes out of service. Because there is another terminal in the shop, the staff just use that one for the rest of the day and ignore the fault.

At the end of the day, the staff forget to do their daily reconciliation of the terminals (i.e. upload all the transactions carried out that day to their acquirer to make sure they've received all transactions processed that day).

Two nights later they are able to fix the fault with the terminal and they carry out their reconciliation. Stored in the terminal's memory are your original transaction which was authorised at the time, and the duplicate which has been stored as an "offline" transaction. The reconciliation program notices the discrepancy and retrospectively authorises the payment, resulting in a pending transaction showing on your NatWest account.

This is all highly unlikely but theoretically possible.

Thanks for the input guys, it's nice to know I'm not imaging this and someone somewhere can offer some valuable and relevant input. YOu guys have been invaluable. I can't begin to thank you enough

I'll be harassing NatWest until I get to the bottom of this, I've also requested a new card and am doing everything in cash at the moment too... no actual transactions until the new card arrives...