Where to buy a puppy (SW London/Surrey)

JimmyTheWig

I agree, Chakani, that people are trying to be helpful. I don't disagree with what's been said, but I think the difference is that we're happy with "normal" where others on this thread seem to be striving for perfection.

I totally appreciated the advice to avoid shops, which is why we found someone who we believe to be a dog lover. They may have made mistakes. We may have made mistakes. But I honestly believe that if mistakes have been made then they have been made with the best intensions.

In another thread you may ask how to calculate 6 times 8. I might tell you how I do it. I believe I have the optimum way to calculate it involving minimal memory and minimal calculations. But I would appreciate that my way wouldn't make sense to a non-mathematican. I would appreciate that you may want a "normal" way to calculate it. And just because I don't see that way as being as good as my way, I wouldn't blame you for choosing it, because it's fine.

Person_one

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

I agree, Chakani, that people are trying to be helpful. I don't disagree with what's been said, but I think the difference is that we're happy with "normal" where others on this thread seem to be striving for perfection.

Honestly, that's not it at all.

My dogs are rescues and are so far from perfect that perfect isn't even a dot on the horizon!

We just really really care about dogs, that's all, and we think its important to buy puppies responsibly for the sake of the dogs, and all the future dogs.

Unless this puppy is the result of an accidental mating and the litter is a one off then the breeders have been able to get away with making a lot of money out of puppies without fulfilling their responsibilities to try and ensure their health and happiness.

If they've made money once, they'll do it again, and another litter of puppies enter the gene pool who may be carrying all sorts of genetic issues and future problems.

We don't want perfect show dogs, I find the show world absurd and obscene to be perfectly honest, but we do want healthy dogs who weren't created just to line human pockets with no consideration for their welfare!

krlyr

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

I agree, Chakani, that people are trying to be helpful. I don't disagree with what's been said, but I think the difference is that we're happy with "normal" where others on this thread seem to be striving for perfection.

Not "perfection", but friendly, healthy, trustworthy around children. Not going to break your heart by dying at 4 years old, or become a constant drain on your wallet by developning a chronic health condition.
I don't like to compare animals to objects, but if you were buying a car, would you not prefer to buy from a garage or dealership with a good reputation, known for selling secondhand cars that were in good condition and made to last - or would you gamble with a car that looked OK, you liked the look of, and just cross your fingers that it won't break down and require major repairs in 8 months time?
If you were buying a house, would you not want to have at least a basic survey done to ensure there wasn't damp lingering behind the new plaster, or woodworm hidden away in the loft?

A dog may be with you for 10-20 years and not only can it cost you money like a car or a house, but it will physically suffer from pain or illness - you just cannot put a price on the joy of a happy, healthy dog, I can assure you that it is heartwrenching to own a dog with a chronic condition like hip dysplasia. I should own a happy 8 year old dog by now, looking forward to the next 4-6 years with her - instead, I had to lift her in to the vets and stand by her side while she was euthanised, knowing that there was nothing more that could be done for her. After we had her put down, we adopted one of my current dogs and everyone in the family commented on how lovely it was to see a dog that could actually run and fetch a ball, to have a dog that could manage more than a 5 minute walk, and not come down to a dog in desperate need of its morning pain relief.
If I seem to go on about the importance of health testing, it's not because I am being 'elitest' about needing the most perfect of perfect dogs, but because I would not wish that heartbreak on anyone, let alone a family with young children who will form such a close bond with their first dog.

JimmyTheWig

krlyr wrote: »

if you were buying a car, would you not prefer to buy from a garage or dealership

Which was my thinking initially of why buying from a pet shop would be best, but you guys put me right on that.

If you were buying a house, would you not want to have at least a basic survey done

One of the first things we'll do is take her to the vet. The breeder has said that if the vet isn't happy she'll issue a full refund.

Caroline_a

Totally agree with the last few posters, OP, we really aren't trying to criticise your choice, we are simply offering advice based on our own experience. I have over 30 years of owning dogs, from small mongrels to giant breeds. My last two dogs have been chosen from breeders very carefully, for temperament and also for health screening. No checks are infallible I agree, but it's about minimising the risk.

I am guessing that you are not an experienced dog owner, which means that you will probably need help with training. I am experienced enough to train my own dogs, but still choose to use training classes when they were younger for the socialisation and also the support. My German Shepherd in particular was a real Kevin the Teenager as a youngster, yet he would behave like an angel in class. Many people might have rehomed him with some of the tricks he got up to, but I persevered, and he grew up and is now a fabulous, well-trained dog. The point was that because of the experience I have, I knew it was just a question of keeping going and him maturing. Many people with less experience might have given up.

Please read again kylyr's description of the sort of things that Springers and Poodles can be prone to, and ask yourself how your family would cope with that. As I have said before, all pups are cute, but the cute pup that turns on your child as an adolescent, or that empties your bank account with vet's fees, or that breaks your family's heart when it has to be put to sleep at a young age is not worth any money.

We are not saying you are doing everything wrong - we are just offering advice to prevent heartache.

Edit - all new pups need to be taken to the vet, if only for vaccinations. However the vet cannot spot many of the inherited traits that will only come out later.

krlyr

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Which was my thinking initially of why buying from a pet shop would be best, but you guys put me right on that.

Not the most literal of comparisons in this case - sorry to confuse matters. But say you were looking for a car and someone said "Don't go for a private sale, go to a garage/dealer" - you could choose 10 garages in the local area but you would likely find that not all 10 were trustworthy.
In the puppy world, the reputable breeder would be like the legitimate garage that your relative/friend/colleague recommends because they bought their cars from them and had a fantastic experience, even years down the line. They're garage that is happy to show you the servicing history of the car, the MOT certificate, and happy to offer a warranty because they're confident that they've done everything they can to provide a good quaity car.
Then you get the garages that look fine from the surface but when your car exhaust falls off in 6 months time, your mechanic tells you it's down to shoddy workmanship, and then the car dealer refuses to take any responsibility or offer any help - that's the private breeders that are in it for the money. They may talk the talk to make the sale but will they be there to offer support in a month/6 months/a year's time?

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

One of the first things we'll do is take her to the vet. The breeder has said that if the vet isn't happy she'll issue a full refund.

Unfortunately conditions like epilepsy, hip dysplasia, progressive retinal atrophy, hypothyroidism, etc. won't be picked up in a general vet checkup in a puppy. Many will develop over time in an apparently healthy dog, and not just in old age - my dog was diagnosed with her hip dysplasia at the 2 year mark and I heard that it is actually quite common for the signs to appear at such a young age.
It is blood tests, hip x-rays, saliva samples, etc. of the parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles that can help a breeder determine whether the lines are healthy enough to breed from and whether the puppies are likely to develop these conditions.
Please take a look at these pages to see the conditions you could face - they vary from something that means a little extra grooming care and attention to the ears, to conditions that can cause blindness, lameness, aggressive behaviour or even early death.
http://www.ariel-ess.com/essfaq/health.html
http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/health.htm