Driving Infringement fine advice

engakuis

I am asking for some advice, I am sure there are many people here who can lend me a kindly word.
I received a fine for stopping in a box junction today.
I did it while I was driving in the morning traffic in London. I do not think that it is fair of them to fine me because of the flow of the morning traffic.
I wondered if it is a good idea to challenge it but I am worried about being fined the full whack if they say no.
Does anyone have any advice on these kind of things?

Many thanks in advance...:D

sofaspud1234

I believe you should not enter the box unless your exit is clear, heavy traffic or not. I really think you should pay up.

Coupon-mad

I do NOT think anyone should just pay up when they get a Council PCN.

I think everyone should post a pic of all pages in a new thread on pepipoo like all these people:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

Most people win in the end - even with YBJ PCNs sometimes.

First thing to do is go and watch the video evidence - do NOT rely on their carefully-selected still photos! Look at the exact situation at the point your car first joined the box, was your way out clear? How long did the car stop for, two seconds or twenty? Watch it and take notes then tell pepipoo about it in your own new thread.

HO87

Although I have no idea whether it will apply to the junction in question but a good number of so-called yellow box junctions in London have been shown to be non-compliant. That translates into grounds for you to be able to appeal. I concur with C-M and suggest you take yourself off to Pepipoo.

peter_the_piper

sofaspud1234 wrote: »

I believe you should not enter the box unless your exit is clear, heavy traffic or not. I really think you should pay up.

We do not know if the exit was clear when he entered the box, watching the video is the only way. The council will of course send pics best showing what they want to convince you to just pay up. Follow CM's advice on pepipoo.

whatmichaelsays

engakuis wrote: »

I am asking for some advice, I am sure there are many people here who can lend me a kindly word.
I received a fine for stopping in a box junction today.
I did it while I was driving in the morning traffic in London. I do not think that it is fair of them to fine me because of the flow of the morning traffic.

When you say "it's not fair because of the flow of London traffic", can you explain why this particular flow of traffic forced you to drive into the yellow box before your exit was clear? Or was it that you weren't paying attention? Or ignoring the rules of the road? Ultimately, this is what will decide whether you are being treated "fairly" and whether or not it is worth appealing.

Personally, I'd love to see more enforcement of yellow box junctions like this. I can think of one in Leeds in particular where the authorities could easily solve their budget deficit - and most of it would come from the local bus operator.

give_them_FA

As you probably realise it is legal to drive into, and stop in, a box junction, if you intend to turn right but are prevented from doing so by oncoming traffic. Don't know if that helps at all in this case.

Stephen_Leak

We've probably all entered a box junction, with space available on the other side, and then someone cuts you up and you end up stopped behind them on the box. There's a big roundabout in Bristol where this regularly happens to me.

This is a job for the experts over on Pepipoo.

give_them_FA

whatmichaelsays wrote: »

When you say "it's not fair because of the flow of London traffic", can you explain why this particular flow of traffic forced you to drive into the yellow box before your exit was clear? Or was it that you weren't paying attention? Or ignoring the rules of the road? Ultimately, this is what will decide whether you are being treated "fairly" and whether or not it is worth appealing.

Personally, I'd love to see more enforcement of yellow box junctions like this. I can think of one in Leeds in particular where the authorities could easily solve their budget deficit - and most of it would come from the local bus operator.

Thanks for your input buddy, but on this forum we abide by Martin Lewis' watchwords of "Help, not judgment".

Trebor16

sofaspud1234 wrote: »

I believe you should not enter the box unless your exit is clear, heavy traffic or not. I really think you should pay up.

What poor advice!

HO87

sofaspud1234 wrote: »

I believe you should not enter the box unless your exit is clear, heavy traffic or not. I really think you should pay up.

whatmichaelsays wrote: »

When you say "it's not fair because of the flow of London traffic", can you explain why this particular flow of traffic forced you to drive into the yellow box before your exit was clear? Or was it that you weren't paying attention? Or ignoring the rules of the road? Ultimately, this is what will decide whether you are being treated "fairly" and whether or not it is worth appealing.

Personally, I'd love to see more enforcement of yellow box junctions like this. I can think of one in Leeds in particular where the authorities could easily solve their budget deficit - and most of it would come from the local bus operator.

Please bear in mind chaps that in order for the law to be enforced, if indeed there is proper cause, then, in terms of the dimensions and layout of the box junction, the law must first be complied with. If the junction layout is non-compliant (with the TSRGD) then from a legal perspective it does not exist and no offences can be committed.

If it was then suggested that regardless of that possible non-compliance that the OP bore a moral responsibility, or he was exploiting a loophole, then should we not then properly discuss who bore the greater moral responsibility? An ordinary member of the public whose principal responsibility was to abide by the law or a public body that had the responsibility to enforce it?

Although much of the public are unaware of it, local authorities have a woeful record in their approach to law enforcement and none more so than those that choose to pursue decriminalised enforcement, such as this. Non-compliant signs, road markings, procedures and completely non-existent traffic regulation orders - all the responsibility of local authorities - are common place and in a significant number of cases continue to be used in the face of numerous judgments to the contrary. Can this be described as living up to one's public responsibilities? I think not.

Whither now the moral high-ground?