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£16 billion in savings needs to be found

12346

Comments

  • wotsthat
    wotsthat Posts: 11,325 Forumite
    pqrdef wrote: »
    Do we really want to see our fellow human beings (fellow-countrymen even, for the racists) reduced to an existence of bare subsistence, as if they were no more than animals?

    They could just get a job.

    Don't forget that we're not talking about condemning people to bare subsistence; we're pondering whether benefits should be sufficient to provide an obvious luxury like a football season ticket.
  • pqrdef
    pqrdef Posts: 4,552 Forumite
    ILW wrote: »
    Bottom line is a private sector could survive without a public sector. A public sector could not survive without the private sector.
    Clearly rubbish. Societies have existed without private sectors. No civilisation has ever existed without a public sector. Even neolithic settlements had collective defences, without which private endeavours would have been wasted.

    I haven't denied that the public sector is in a sense "a cost", but you haven't begun to explain why the private sector isn't "a cost" in exactly the same way. Neither of them is giving you anything for nothing.
    "It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis
  • FTBFun
    FTBFun Posts: 4,273 Forumite
    pqrdef wrote: »
    Clearly rubbish. Societies have existed without private sectors. No civilisation has ever existed without a public sector. Even neolithic settlements had collective defences, without which private endeavours would have been wasted.

    The only one I can think of is the Communist systems. They worked out really well didn't they?
  • FTBFun
    FTBFun Posts: 4,273 Forumite
    pqrdef wrote: »
    Through spending in shops, some of the money passing through wage packets (private and public) is recycled to pay private-sector wages next month. Where else do you think private sector wages come from? The shareholders?

    What if you don't work in retail?
  • grizzly1911
    grizzly1911 Posts: 9,965 Forumite
    wotsthat wrote: »
    They could just get a job.

    Don't forget that we're not talking about condemning people to bare subsistence; we're pondering whether benefits should be sufficient to provide an obvious luxury like a football season ticket.


    If the jobs were in plentiful supply then I would agree with you.

    The Rangers example was more about waste generally and by keeping more money back for personal waste doesn't necessarily mean it gets spent wisely.

    pqrdef

    Don't think wasting money on Wolves = pleasure unless you are into sado masochism but then some poor suckers will keep handing over the readies when they could be enjoying the slow growth of an ISA, mind you that isn't much better.
    "If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....

    "big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham
  • pqrdef
    pqrdef Posts: 4,552 Forumite
    wotsthat wrote: »
    We were talking about the difference between me buying a Rangers season ticket or buying one for someone else on benefits instead.
    Well perhaps we should talk about who is the more meritorious or deserving person, or the one making the greater contribution to society. It might be you. Then again, it might not.

    Or perhaps you'll say you "earned" the money. But perhaps the other guy also "earned" his money. Who said that work was the only way to "earn" money? (The rich have never thought so.)
    "It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis
  • pqrdef
    pqrdef Posts: 4,552 Forumite
    wotsthat wrote: »
    Don't forget that we're not talking about condemning people to bare subsistence; we're pondering whether benefits should be sufficient to provide an obvious luxury like a football season ticket.
    But if you remove all luxuries, you're down to bare subsistence.
    "It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis
  • pqrdef
    pqrdef Posts: 4,552 Forumite
    FTBFun wrote: »
    The only one I can think of is the Communist systems. They worked out really well didn't they?
    From an historical and worldwide perspective, communal societies have been the norm and private enterprise is the aberration.

    And in fact most Communist systems were economically much more successful than the systems they replaced. Looking at the state of Russia and America in 1917, you wouldn't have picked Russia to win the space race. Russia and China didn't fall behind under Communism, they started even further behind and did most of the catching up.
    "It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis
  • pqrdef
    pqrdef Posts: 4,552 Forumite
    Don't think wasting money on Wolves = pleasure unless you are into sado masochism but then some poor suckers will keep handing over the readies when they could be enjoying the slow growth of an ISA, mind you that isn't much better.
    But money in the bank will help the government fight the Germans, whereas if you give money to footballers they'll just rebuild their mansions with gigantic fishtanks.
    "It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis
  • pqrdef
    pqrdef Posts: 4,552 Forumite
    wotsthat wrote: »
    Last time I bought a season ticket (for a different club) it involved a cash transaction not an interview with a priest to determine how lovely I was.
    Same for the other guy. If you're happy with possession of the cash being the only thing that matters, what's the problem?

    You're going to say that your money is your money, and the other guy's money is also your money. But that's nonsense. He's been paid the money under an Act of Parliament, passed by the people we vote for. He's just as entitled to it as you are. If you can't accept a democratic decision, that's your problem. You can't expect people to agree that your opinion is worth more. Should we just scrap elections and make you dictator?
    "It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis
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