Charge for change to periodic tenancy

Timewarp

Hi

My letting agent are trying to charge us a £65 renewal fee for a fixed term tenancy lapsing onto a rolling contract, with 2 months notice from either side. They say there is a charge for the tenancy renewal, even though this is process that happens by default by law.

Can they legally insist on a 2 month notice from us to them on a periodic monthly tenancy?

Also, have they any right to charge us?

I queried the charge and they sent through by email a copy of the application form we signed that states "if after the expiry of a fixed term both parties wish to extend the tenancy, a fee of £65 will be payable for renewing or extending the tenancy agreement, irrespective of the length of the extended period or the type of agreement.". Also the PDF copy of the application form contained bank and employment details, which I was unhappy about being sent via an unsecured format like email. Do these guys know what they're doing?

Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

BitterAndTwisted

Letting-agents can and do try to charge for tenancy agreement renewals or anything else they think they can get away with.

As you know, a periodic tenancy automatically arises the day after your fixed-term expires. Nothing except moving out on the last day can prevent that happening.

Once on a periodic tenancy the notice period is two months on the landlord's side and one month for the tenant. That month is a compete rental-period and not one calender month, so you need to be aware of the "from" and "to" dates on your original tenancy agreement.

The risk for the tenant on a periodic tenancy is that they have less security of tenure bar the notice period, so it all depends on whether you want the security of another fixed-term or not, and whether you believe the agent will give you notice in revenge for not paying their spurious fee.

One tactic, when being pressed for a decision one way or the other is to delay and prevaricate about your decision until the fixed-term has expired. Fully expect the agent to harass you almost daily.

Timewarp

Thanks. They've agreed to the periodic tenancy, but they are trying to charge us for the privilege.

Just to be clear, if the fixed tenancy was to expire next Friday, they still would need to give us 2 months notice (rental period months) at this point?

BitterAndTwisted

Yes, I am aware that the agent is trying to think of any dodgy way to extract a fee from you.

And yes, they would have to issue you with a Section 21 Notice giving you two rental-period notice in order to try to bring the tenancy to an end. Any landlord with good, regular-paying tenants who look after the property properly would be mental to spend money on trying evict them. Never forget, that it could be in the agent's interests to do that: they then get yet another holding-deposit from new tenants plus the mark-up on their referencing charges and a tenant-finding fee from the landlord every time there's change-over in tenants.

rpc

Rob_Leeds wrote: »

a fee of £65 will be payable for renewing or extending the tenancy agreement, irrespective of the length of the extended period or the type of agreement.

You aren't renewing or extending the agreement, therefore no fee due! You are keeping the same agreement, just letting the fixed term lapse and revert to a statutory periodic. As B&T says, they are fishing for easy money and may give you your notice if you refuse. You could write directly to the LL to explain the scenario. I'm pretty sure (s)he won't see any of that £65 so won't care either way. What you don't want is the agent painting you as a high-risk or dodgy tenant in order to have them agree to an eviction.

00ec25

rpc wrote: »

You aren't renewing or extending the agreement, therefore no fee due! .

whilst there should be no fee due , in this case the OP has signed terms and copnditions which make it possible for the LA to contractually charge a fee

the question therefore is what action willl the LA take if the OP refuses to pay. In this case it would be a civil case between the LA and OP for breach of terms, if it gets that far then the LA must write a leter before action at which point the OP could (should?) cave in and pay up, until that point I'd be inclined to call their bluff

BTW - its just as possible that the LA also charges the LL for this "work" so gets their £65 from both sides. Write to the LL and see what they have to say

BitterAndTwisted

If I were in the same position I would ignore the agent's blandishments to pay any fee whatsoever until I was on a periodic. To directly avoid or discuss not paying this fee would just open up the potential for more hassle from the agent.

What documentation? We haven't received any. Can you send another copy?

Oh yes, that paperwork. I think I've lost it.

Thanks for the documentation but we haven't decided yet. We'll let you know when we've reached a decision.

And so on.

tbs624

rpc wrote: »

You aren't renewing or extending the agreement, therefore no fee due! You are keeping the same agreement, just letting the fixed term lapse and revert to a statutory periodic.

Once the Fixed Term has expired, if no new tenancy agreement has been signed and the T remains in situ, the tenancy does not "revert", ie go back, it moves forward onto a statutory periodic agreement

rpc wrote: »

As B&T says, they are fishing for easy money and may give you your notice if you refuse. You could write directly to the LL to explain the scenario. I'm pretty sure (s)he won't see any of that £65 so won't care either way.

It is probable that the LA will also be trying to slap the LL with a similar fee so the LL may well be pleased to hear direct from the T.

tbs624

I agree with B&T's post 7 , except if a S21 has already been served earlier in the tenancy.

OP - note that anyone can set up in business as an LA - no regulation, no speicifc expertise, no training, ,no qualifications required. Some have no clue what a Stat periodic agreement actually is and that it arises courtesy of statute withoutneeding any input from them. Some do know but will still try it on with fees. If you have hitherto been a reliable T then your LL is not likely to want to lose you. Speak direct to the LL - if you don't have his contact info then download his name/adress from the Land Registry ( 4 quid fee)

jjlandlord

00ec25 wrote: »

whilst there should be no fee due , in this case the OP has signed terms and copnditions which make it possible for the LA to contractually charge a fee

If the clause is part of the tenancy agreement it allows for the landlord to charge a fee, so we should assume that the fee the LA wants to collect is on behalf of the landlord.
The clause states that it applies if both parties wish to "extend the tenancy", which is not possible to do.
So either we consider this clause meaningless, or it should only apply if a new actual contract is set up.

If the clause is part of the agent's T&C it's dubious that it has any effect on the tenant, as the tenant has no contractual relation whatsoever with the agent.

jjlandlord

Rob_Leeds wrote: »

Can they legally insist on a 2 month notice from us to them on a periodic monthly tenancy?

Yes, if you agree to create a contractual periodic tenancy.
If you remain on a statutory periodic tenancy, then you'll only have to give 1 month notice expiring with a tenancy period.