Brushing up on eBay/Paypal queries

antispam246

Few questions that I'd appreciate someone reassuring me on.

1) What legal ground do you stand on as a seller when placing something like "Will not post to unconfirmed paypal address" or "Paypal address MUST be confirmed"?

After recent experiences I'll be checking this every time, if I find a buyers address has not been confirnmed do I have thr right to say, sorry, no sale, if I have stated as such in the listing? Can they not just go and neg me after anyway and then where do I stand with eBay on the neg for no sale due to the fact they were unconfirmed?

2) When you start a NPB dispute what are the exact time limits on the process? Meaning;
- I can start the dispute X time after sale? (Is it 4 days? and this may sound picky but what about hours/minutes?) Is it exactly 96 hours?
- When can I close the dispute after no response? (I think it's the same as above, 4 days and exactly 96 hours?)

Reason I'm being specific with the time frame is, having had a few NPBs recently I've noticed the closur doesn't elapse on the day per say so I'#m guessing it's exactly X hours/minutes after opening it OR is it a case of it falsl into eBays office hours or something?

3) How long after an auction ends (in a sale) can
a) the seller open a dispute/cancel transaction
b) the buyer open a dispute/cancel a transaction

and does this start from the time the auction ends (with a winning bid) or when the auction ends and the payment is received? I have 45 days in my head, but I maybe confusing that with paypal, I think paypal claim can be made upto 45 days after payment (non-credit card) right? So maybe I'm off on the eBay part, is it a month?

steveE2

antispam246 wrote: »

Few questions that I'd appreciate someone reassuring me on.

1) What legal ground do you stand on as a seller when placing something like "Will not post to unconfirmed paypal address" or "Paypal address MUST be confirmed"?

After recent experiences I'll be checking this every time, if I find a buyers address has not been confirnmed do I have thr right to say, sorry, no sale, if I have stated as such in the listing? Can they not just go and neg me after anyway and then where do I stand with eBay on the neg for no sale due to the fact they were unconfirmed?

2) When you start a NPB dispute what are the exact time limits on the process? Meaning;
- I can start the dispute X time after sale? (Is it 4 days? and this may sound picky but what about hours/minutes?) Is it exactly 96 hours?
- When can I close the dispute after no response? (I think it's the same as above, 4 days and exactly 96 hours?)

Reason I'm being specific with the time frame is, having had a few NPBs recently I've noticed the closur doesn't elapse on the day per say so I'#m guessing it's exactly X hours/minutes after opening it OR is it a case of it falsl into eBays office hours or something?

3) How long after an auction ends (in a sale) can
a) the seller open a dispute/cancel transaction
b) the buyer open a dispute/cancel a transaction

and does this start from the time the auction ends (with a winning bid) or when the auction ends and the payment is received? I have 45 days in my head, but I maybe confusing that with paypal, I think paypal claim can be made upto 45 days after payment (non-credit card) right? So maybe I'm off on the eBay part, is it a month?

1) Confirmed addresses haven't been used by paypal for about 4 years now,so you cannot refuse to sell on those grounds
Yes the buyer can neg you and hit DSR's if you don't complete the sale and report you as a Non Performing Seller.

2) Correct 4 days exactly to open then a further 4 days exactly when you can close the case,if you leave it to close by ebay automatically I have known it take 5 days but this is rare.

3)
a) 45 days(+45 days to appeal decision on either side)
b) 45 days from date of payment(+45 days to appeal decision on either side) except for unauthorized charge backs which can be 12 months +

Crowqueen

Legally speaking you can refuse to sell to anyone but you cannot do this if you wish to use eBay - you sign up and agree to their terms when you arrange to sell. I suppose if it went to law you might have to simply prove you were not discriminating on the grounds of race, ethnicity etc., and I suspect that not even that is illegal (not certain about that), but on eBay's site you have to play by eBay's rules or face eBay's sanctions, which are more important in the long run as if you acquire too many non-performing seller reports they have the right to say that you are not allowed to use their services.

Then the legal right to refuse customers won't be a problem as you will not have any customers in the first place to refuse.

You are always legally responsible (under SOGA) for any loss in transit so there is no way you can wriggle out of that on any arbitrary criteria.

eBayRipOff

As a seller for over 10 years on eBay/Paypal, beware the traps.

When it comes to eBay/Paypal seller protection, you must tick all the boxes.

https://www.paypal-marketing.co.uk/safetyadvice/SellerProtectionOnEbay.htm

And you must be aware of what this means. Now normally when transaction has been made on eBay and paid by paypal, you will see in Paypal either
"Seller eligible for seller protection!" or
"Partially eligible" or
"Not Eligible"

Now there are cases where the 2 bottom ones are perfectly legitimate transactions, but they should go as a warning that you need to do some more research.

Paypal does have a clause "Post to a confirmed address, as displayed in 'Transaction Details'. This ensures that the item goes to the buyer at an address we have details of."

This is if transaction is between USA, Canada and the UK, however eBay with Paypal give extended protection to other countries when certain criteria have been met by the buyer with regards to them registered their details so they all match up between eBay and Paypal, then Paypal also provide Seller protection to other countries.

You need to take your own risk assessment, but beware, do not get tempted by the money, as the risks are sometimes big for high value items.

My advice if it is an expensive item, never accept to post item when it is says not eligible for seller protection, the chances are to high that it can be a fraudulent transaction. I would say this will probably be 70 - 30%, towards fraud, so if you against all odds want to do the transaction ask for ID, copies of utility bills (multiple), put this in the description that unless buyer meets certain criteria you reserve the right to request additional documents or cancel the transaction unless they meet this criteria, of course you can offer them alternative payment methods, such as bank transfer, cheque, bankers draft or cash on collection. Make this clear in the description, if you are not happy with what comes from Paypal, you have the right to refuse the transaction, if you suspect you might receive charge-back from a strange transaction.
If you call Paypal for advice, they will tell you, this is up to you, they might give you some impartial advice from what they have on they system if it looks very dodgy, it has happen, specially if the items have high value.

Now when Partially Eligible, you are only protected against items not received, you are not protected if the buyer is fraudulent! (Charge-back)
I would say in this case request all the extra documents, and your odds are a bit better, because you have some confirmation about the person, but request ID, utility bills, if anything does not add up cancel the transaction, better to go without a sale than loose much money.

In the third case when says Seller protection eligible, just make sure you follow ALL guidelines by Paypal, if international above a certain value,(£150) it must be by Fedex, DHL, UPS or Parcelforce, because must be able to track it online and get a signature, using Royal Mail International Signed for or Royal Mail Airsure is NOT acceptable for items above £150 to keep your seller protection.
Also post item within 7 days.

Paypal will not care, if you do not follow exactly by the word what they say, they will not protect your money.

Yes you can cancel transaction if you suspect the transaction might be fraudulent, which is the major issue here. Put these seller rules in stone when you advertise, this way buyer should have read this before he bid or make offer, you are selling items on your terms, and it is up to the buyer to accept these!

alykatz

eBayRipOff wrote: »

My advice if it is an expensive item, never accept to post item when it is says not eligible for seller protection, the chances are to high that it can be a fraudulent transaction. I would say this will probably be 70 - 30%, towards fraud, so if you against all odds want to do the transaction ask for ID, copies of utility bills (multiple), put this in the description that unless buyer meets certain criteria you reserve the right to request additional documents or cancel the transaction unless they meet this criteria, of course you can offer them alternative payment methods, such as bank transfer, cheque, bankers draft or cash on collection. Make this clear in the description,

So let me get this straight, a seller can ask a buyer to provide extra id ect? before continuing with a sale?
That does not sound right to me tbh.Thats like going into a high street store and paying with a credit card and being asked to produce household bills ect before purchase can be completed. Or maybe ive misunderstood whats been posted.

eBayRipOff

With Paypal it is important to be able to confirm that the person who owns the account gets verified, often they are verified on PayPal, but don't have confirmed address!

Now the seller can try to obtain this information by requiring extra details to make sure you are dealing with the right person, and that his name matches the address given, this way you have evidence to dispute a chargeback case!

In the high street you have various other safety devices, online there is no face value contact! I believe in the high street you could be requested to provide ID with your credit card, happen to me in Spain!

I used to take payment over the phone, and this was a way to gather data to confirm this was the actual credit card holder purchasing the item!

It is the responsibility of the seller to get sufficient information to ensure the transaction is safe, this applies when Paypal tells you that you are not eligible for seller protection, if the buyer does not want to provide these documents, than move on politely, as the risk is to high!

eBayRipOff

Short extra note on this, as the seller you put this clear in your conditions to accept various payment methods.

If buyer is not eligible for seller protection, you will not accept the payment, you decide that you will accept this at your own discretion. It's your sales, you decide what is an acceptable risk!

Because the account has come back as not eligible, something is missing, all might be good, but it is ALL on the seller, do you want to take that gamble? If high value, than no way!

If buyer does not want to comply, move on, and say sorry, these are my policies for accepting Paypal, alternative payment methods are available or upgrade your Paypal account if possible!

End of the day, it is your money that is at risk!

eBayRipOff

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1074407766&r.i=1074407704&r.l1=1073858790&r.l2=1073858942&r.l3=1074407140&r.t=RESOURCES&type=RESOURCES

Read the part card holder not present.

For cardholder-not-present transactions, you can:

ask for the card security code if you have the facility!- usually the last three digits on the signature strip or, in the case of an American Express card, four numbers on the front of the card
ask customers!to bring their card when collecting goods

ask for faxed confirmation of the order with a signature and proof of address


check the name and address details you have been given with those held by the company which issued the card
use the Address Verification Service offered by your bank, which checks the numerical details of the cardholder's address with the card issuer
take advantage of specific programmes aimed at preventing fraudulent transactions - like Verified by Visa and MasterCard SecureCode

alykatz

eBayRipOff wrote: »

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1074407766&r.i=1074407704&r.l1=1073858790&r.l2=1073858942&r.l3=1074407140&r.t=RESOURCES&type=RESOURCES

Read the part card holder not present.

For cardholder-not-present transactions, you can:

ask for the card security code if you have the facility!- usually the last three digits on the signature strip or, in the case of an American Express card, four numbers on the front of the card
ask customers!to bring their card when collecting goods

ask for faxed confirmation of the order with a signature and proof of address


check the name and address details you have been given with those held by the company which issued the card
use the Address Verification Service offered by your bank, which checks the numerical details of the cardholder's address with the card issuer
take advantage of specific programmes aimed at preventing fraudulent transactions - like Verified by Visa and MasterCard SecureCode

None of this is relevent to your post earlier stating you ask for supporting documents/id. Nowhere in your link does it suggest using that particular course of action for online sellers. Yes of course when collecting goods from say Debenhams for instance, that you have ordered and paid for online,you are asked to bring proof of payment address ect. All the information in the link you provided is the normal standard practises none of which state asking for additional proof of address ect..Nowhere can i see it stated that you can ask for addtional documentation over and above verifying the payment card and address card is linked to.

eBayRipOff

When payment is by PayPal, you never have or see the card details, thats not important, as it is impossible to know what card is used on Paypal!

"ask for faxed confirmation of the order with a signature and proof of address"

So entertain me by telling me what information that would be?

How would you obtain proof of addres? From a customer?

By the way, if you are located in the UK there is no excuse for not having an account that is eligible for seller protection, as In the UK you are able to get your account verified and your address Confirmed!

This only really becomes an issue if you are located outside UK, USA or Canada!

If you in UK it's simple, verify your Paypal account, and make sure it has a Confirmed address, and if Paypal and eBay address matches than even better!

This only becomes relevant when buyer is from ANY other country than the ones above!

To get proof of address in practical terms, you need to identify who is the person, and check that the address is correct, this would in the practical world be an ID and same name on the bills, or how do you otherwise suggest to provide somebody with this information?

In this case seller is the kingmaker, either you agree or go to somebody else!

This to avoid credit card fraud, you should be happy if sellers put that extra work, as they try to avoid fraud!

Of course the buyers don't care, as they only cry to CC company, and get refunded regardless if truthful or not!

Follow these simple rules as a seller and you will trade safely online!

To many claims, and Paypal stops protecting you too! (the seller)

StaffsSW

antispam246 wrote: »

Few questions that I'd appreciate someone reassuring me on.

1) What legal ground do you stand on as a seller when placing something like "Will not post to unconfirmed paypal address" or "Paypal address MUST be confirmed"?

I'm no lwayer, or even a bedroom-barrister like many, so I'm not sure of the legalities of such a clause in your listings, but as far as ebay is concerned, you are entitled to cancel a sale for that very reason, just as I am doing at this very moment!