Should I threaten him with the police?

dwsjarcmcd

I bought this item http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=180084706420&rd=1&rd=1 using 'buy it now'. Had been looking for this for a while, the price was right and at the time, feedback was excellent.

Listing stated 'cheque only' which was sent 1st class next day and cleared the following Monday. I started to worry when I wasn't getting any replies to e-mails, then I received a message saying he had 'lost my address and could I resend, oh and don't worry about the 4 negatives, they all paid with bounced cheques'

E-mailed him back with the details and asked for confirmation that the item had been posted - nothing. E-mailed him a few more times - nothing.

Raised a dispute via ebay and he responded saying item send posted via Royal Mail, would take up to 5 days to get to me and quoted a tracking number. When I tried to track it, the number he quoted was wrong, it has 14 digits instead of 13 and doesn't end in letters! He must think I'm buttoned up the back or something!!

Told him the number was wrong and to check - he did, it was the right number he said! and would be here by Friday. Surprise, surprise nothing and no reply to my last message yesterday morning.

I have felt for a while that this is could be a scam and he has nearly £200 of my hard earned money. I know I will get £105 back from ebay but that's not the point.

No point at giving -ve feedback now or just yet at least, firstly is there anything else I (or ebay) should be doing i.e. asking for a refund, and secondly, this 'could' be a fraud so do you think reporting to the police and telling him that I will do this, has any merit? (as opposed to just doing it)

Cheers

Blacksheep1979

police will just say its a civil matter - the only way you could really get your money back is via the small claims court

DavidHM

Maybe, but there's no harm in getting a crime number. It's still obtaining money by deception if he's cashing cheques with no intention of sending the goods and people have been prosecuted for eBay fraud in the past.

dwsjarcmcd

Blacksheep1979 wrote:

police will just say its a civil matter - the only way you could really get your money back is via the small claims court

Blacksheep - While I accept your point, what I don't understand is why it's a civil matter. He may (reserving judgement!!) have defrauded me.

What will Ebay do, given his recent track record, to protect others?

Bossyboots

The crime would be if you could show intention to retain the money without sending the goods. If that can be proved the police might be interested. Without the intention to deprive, it is a civil matter.

If you want to go to the police then you should print off anything on eBay that shows he has done this before.

I would still be surprised if the police are interested but if you have some evidence of a pattern, they may take more notice.

Otherwise the civil court is your only route and then that is only worth it if you know they have the means to pay you back.

dwsjarcmcd

Tried to contact the people who listed -ve comment against him after I bought the item, because what I couldn't tell was what the outcome was of these listings. Unfortunately you can't do this via ebay.

Would Ebay be interested at this stage (it has not been 30 days since I raised the despute, or should I ask for a refund first?

Interestingly, his listing makes it sound as though he is a trader, 'we have an extensive range....etc' Does this make any difference, if it could be proven he wasn't and therefore meet the test of 'showing intention to retain the money without sending the goods'

soolin

dwsjarcmcd wrote:

Blacksheep - While I accept your point, what I don't understand is why it's a civil matter. He may (reserving judgement!!) have defrauded me.

What will Ebay do, given his recent track record, to protect others?

Ebay protect by warning users to use feedback as a guide to the seller, and to use a protected payment method. Unfortunately people still will use cheques for amounts exceeding the ebay buyer protection amount, and I can't see how ebay can stop people doing that.

In this case it might be worth checking whether this could go to small claims, and whether the OP has enough accurate information about the seller to be able to get papers served on him/her.

soolin

Also, , and I'm sorry but I'm being blunt today..why would anyone even consider buying from a non paypal user who has the following terms in his auction:

ITEM WILL BE SENT AS SOON AS PAYMENT IS RECEIVED AND CLEARED.IF THE BUYER DOES NOT PURCHASE THE OPTIONAL POSTAL INSURANCE,THE ITEM WILL NOT BE INSURED AND I THE SELLER WILL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE IF LOST OR DAMAGED IN TRANSIT (NO REFUND GIVEN).WHEN POSTAL INSURANCE IS PURCHASED OR INCLUDED AND THE ITEM IS LOST OR DAMAGED IN THE POST REFUND WILL ONLY BE GIVEN AFTER A CLAIM HAS BEEN PROCESSED BY ROYAL MAIL AND COMPENSATION PAID.IF NO COMPENSATION IS PAID BY ROYAL MAIL, NO REFUND WILL BE GIVEN.

To me that suggests the seller is aware he loses these in the post (or doesn't send them) so is basically telling the buyer that in cases where item doesn't arrive, tough luck.

dwsjarcmcd

soolin,
No problem with you being blunt, interestingly, when I bought the item, I wasn't offered any additional insurance! The negative feedback appeared after I bought the thing and I did rely on it!
I have his full name and address so may well consider small claims, although this may be just as futile.
Will contact him and ask for a refund.......no expectations though

soolin

Yes I had noticed the fact that he states you must pay additional insurance, and then doesn't offer it However, that *might* be a clever ruse on his part to try and block ebay claims as of course an ebay claim works differently to a paypal claim in that as soon as the buyer does not pay for additional insurance when offered, any future ebay claim is null and void.

He may think that by having confusing terms he can play the system, and anyone who tries to be dishonest in that way is best avoided. Also, I am still worried by his disclaimer about not being responsible for items lost in post, that's not too much of a worry when paypal is used as paypal don't care what sellers say they have their own rules, but ebay do make some small allowances sometimes (in an inconsistent way) to the intention of an auction and whilst I am not aware that they have ever let a seller stick to such apalling terms it would have been one more thing that would have stopped me using this seller.

kevinyork

Ive said it many times on here only to be knocked down but here goes:

This is a criminal matter. It is obtaining goods by deception. Too many people accept the knockback from the Police when told it is a Civil matter so they continue to tell people that.

If the Officer you report it too refuses to deal with it as a crime then ask for the Duty Inspector and make a complaint that they are not investigating the matter.

The evidence is clear: his ebay listing, his emails, his other negatives, you have his address you sent the cheque to (he has acknowledged it in his emails), you can trace it through your bank if necessary and finally you have no goods and he cannot prove you do.

If people want to be defeatist and accept the Police telling them its a Civil issue then its their loss but it is a Criminal Matter and I have progressed 2 eBay cases through the Police both of which have had results. Amazingly both cases mushroomed with other people who were ripped off coming forward so the Police ended up with lots of evidence. If people had simply not pursued it then they would have got away with it and continued to scam others. Just be persistent!

However it doesnt necessarily mean you will get your money back so still consider the County Court System alongside the Criminal action. I would write a letter to his address giving him 14 days for return of your money or for the goods you paid for otherwise you will commence action against him. Go for the full amount in any claim plus an amount for costs - say £25 to £45. Go to this link to start your claim.

Good luck