Holiday pay in wages?

[Deleted User]

Hi, I could sound like a right dumbo...

Received a letter confirming my new job and in it states I'll be paid holiday pay in with my hourly rate, sorry just never seen it like this before!

I realise things may be different in another sector

Does this mean what I think, I won't get paid if/when I do take eg. a week of as holiday? because payment is accured in my wages instead, have I got this right??

There is no your holiday entitlement is x days..... eeek!

marybelle01

As far as I am aware, but I am not an expert on it, this is illegal.

laura243

My boyfriends pay is like this too, he was given a wage and 12.5% on top to account for holidays and sickness, a few companies I know of pay their casual workers this type of wage.

Pricivius

If this is what's known as "rolled up" holiday pay then, yes, it's unlawful. But... having said that... I vaguely recall that it's a bit of a grey area and there are sort of ways around it ish... I know that's not much help - sorry! I'll try and remember...

Are you employed by the company? There's no umbrella company involved?

Edited to add: Just remembered! If the holiday pay element of your pay is clearly designated in your payslip and therefore your basic pay is also clearly listed and separate, then it is not unlawful. So check your payslip...

Notmyrealname

It is not illegal if the fact you are being paid it as part of your wages and the amount is disclosed.

Yes it means you won't get paid when you take time off. What you need to do is put the money aside.

marybelle01

So ACAS and direct.gov are wrong?

http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=955&p=0

This says that employers should not use any form of rolled up holiday pay where holiday pay is staggered over the rest of the year.

As does this: http://www.steenandco.co.uk/rolled-up-holiday-pay-_109/

And this: http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1073792640&type=RESOURCES

I am genuinely confused because I have been clearly told that being paid rolled up holiday pay is illegal and the OP's post says "I'll be paid holiday pay in with my hourly rate" which is rolled up holiday pay.

Pricivius

I can understand your confusion and this is why I suggested it's a grey area. Whilst the ECJ has ruled rolled up pay to be unlawful under the working times directive, the UK confused the issue when it brought that directive into play with the WTR (probably inadvertently).

The WTR refers to employers being permitted to set-off pay against holidays and until this is more clearly defined or removed, my understanding is that this provides employers with a defence of sorts. This, along with transparent and comprehensive policy and evidence that significant efforts are made to ensure workers take leave, gives the current feeling that a claim would not be successful.

The issues with rolled up pay are that it encourages workers not to take the leave they are entitled to and employers can use it to supplement income. Providing both these issues are comprehensively addressed by an employer, it would be an interesting decision for a tribunal to give a worker double holiday pay, particularly in these difficult economic times and considering how widespread rolled up
Pay is.

At least, that's my understanding. I'm afraid few things are black and white lawful/unlawful.

Evilm

Is it an agency role? Some agencies used to do that.

getmore4less

For some contracts, PAYG holidays make a lot of sense.

For any fixed hours contracts it really does not need to be used.

Zero hours, recurring casual where you don't work very week(at least 5.6 a year) just paying the holiday pay is a lot easier than accruing and then "booking" days off just check there have been enough days off and just pay it.

The key is to make sure that it is itemized seperatly and not included in the normal pay.

The other thing to make sure is it is paid t the correct rate.

For stautory minimum holidays this is 12.07%, if full timers get more than 28 days(5.6weeks) then the % needs to be higher,
The calculation : weeks/(52-weeks) so statutory 5.6/46.4=0.1207.

anamenottaken

getmore4less wrote: »

For stautory minimum holidays this is 12.07%, if full timers get more than 28 days(5.6weeks) then the % needs to be higher,
The calculation : weeks/(52-weeks) so statutory 5.6/46.4=0.1207.

For work through an agency, the higher holiday entitlement applies after 12 weeks' work.
If it is through an agency, the comparison is with a directly employed worker rather than a full-timer (part-timers could, technically, be given more holiday than a full-timer).

[Deleted User]

Thanks all :A think you've clarified it for me


No I'm not going to be an agency/temp worker as I believed my new job is fixed hrs 37 ½ - going to be one of those mobile Home Care Assistants though the company also does have a care home and has been running nearly 20 years, which is why I found it a little odd as I know these temp/agency have had problems in the past

I thought about it overnight and think what I'll do is open a 'holiday pay bank account'! what a weird way to do things! hope this ain't the first of many surprises, just didn't even think to ask at interview silly me

Massive thanks again