HELP - notice of intended prosecution

sebdangerfield

Nearly_Old wrote: »

As posted by the OP "a NIP has been received" with no mention that the police were present at the time of the offence.

When the offence is observed by the police and they stop the offender then normally they will issue the FPN as they know the name of the driver. However when the offence has been recorded remotely; e.g. by video, speed camera, etc then the name of the driver is not known. Hence it is probably the reverse of the NIP (the S172) that is the important bit as the police need to establish the name of the driver. I suppose that they could have just asked the RK but they have a ready made form that can just be delivered. I am not aware, but am happy to be corrected, that there are different time limits for NIPs for different offences.

Again, as has been stated earlier in this thread, It matters not if the police were there at the time of the offence of if the d was issued with a NIP as the offence is not one which requires notification.

Police may use s172 of the rta to require driver keeper details but this is separate altogether from a NIP. This was pointed out in my first post. Some forces may issue NIPs with the s172 form on the reverse to save money or time but this is the only reason the two are linked.

I'm not really sure about you point regarding different time limits for NIPs as its not relevant to this matter. But to clarify, the time limit for an NIP is the same regardless of the offence.

sebdangerfield

Lum wrote: »

Mobile phone offences can be dealt with by NIPs these days

Do you have any reference for this? My understanding of this, and other's on this thread, is that using a mobile phone whilst driving is not an offence which requires NIP.

Lum

The key word in my post was "can", not "must".

How else would you suggest dealing with a camera generated mobile phone offence other than sending out a standard NIP/172?

Nearly_Old

sebdangerfield wrote: »

Do you have any reference for this? My understanding of this, and other's on this thread, is that using a mobile phone whilst driving is not an offence which requires NIP.

There is a short list of offences for which a NIP shall be issued and as stated in various posts driving whilst using a mobile phone is not on the list. This however does not preclude a NIP being issued for other offences particularly when the police definition includes:

The purpose of the notice of intended prosecution (NIP) is to inform the potential defendant that he may be prosecuted for the offence he has committed, whilst the incident is still fresh in his memory.
When you receive an NIP it does not automatically mean that you are going to face prosecution, it is a warning that you may face prosecution.

The full text is here:
https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q557.htm

In effect there are 2 types of NIP:
1. The initial NIP/S172 where all the police have is the registration number so the NIP/S172 is sent to the RK who completes the S172 as appropriate.

2. The final NIP addressed to the driver that contains details of the offence and the options available; e.g.
- accept a FPN; or
- a summons is to be issued; or
- driver can refuse the FPN and go to court; or
- speed awareness course (only for speeding offences)

What the OP has received is the initial NIP/S172 as the police do not at this point have the name and address of the driver so the final NIP cannot yet be issued. If a driver is stopped by the police then usually the initial NIP is issued verbally; e.g. "Sir / Madam I must inform that we intend to proceed with a prosecution" - or something similar.

I am the RK for all our cars and have received a few initial NIPs - I complete the S172 and usually about a week later my wife receives the final NIP in her name.

sebdangerfield

Lum wrote: »

The key word in my post was "can", not "must".

How else would you suggest dealing with a camera generated mobile phone offence other than sending out a standard NIP/172?

So you're saying for some offences there is an option to use NIP?

I would suggest using s172 RTA to require the driver details of the time of the offence and prosecute him.

sebdangerfield

Nearly_Old wrote: »

There is a short list of offences for which a NIP shall be issued and as stated in various posts driving whilst using a mobile phone is not on the list. This however does not preclude a NIP being issued for other offences particularly when the police definition includes:

The full text is here:
https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q557.htm

In effect there are 2 types of NIP:
1. The initial NIP/S172 where all the police have is the registration number so the NIP/S172 is sent to the RK who completes the S172 as appropriate.

2. The final NIP addressed to the driver that contains details of the offence and the options available; e.g.
- accept a FPN; or
- a summons is to be issued; or
- driver can refuse the FPN and go to court; or
- speed awareness course (only for speeding offences)

What the OP has received is the initial NIP/S172 as the police do not at this point have the name and address of the driver so the final NIP cannot yet be issued. If a driver is stopped by the police then usually the initial NIP is issued verbally; e.g. "Sir / Madam I must inform that we intend to proceed with a prosecution" - or something similar.

I am the RK for all our cars and have received a few initial NIPs - I complete the S172 and usually about a week later my wife receives the final NIP in her name.

Okay, I'm not going to break your post down entirely as I don't have time today. However, it shows a fair misunderstanding of the law around this.

What are these two types of nip?

What benefit would the police or defendant have with sending a nip for this offence?

You are getting nip and s172 confused or merged. Nip is from s1RTOA and is to provide warning for drivers who may have committed an offence to provide time to develop o defence. The requirement to provide driver details is s172 RTA. The two are not joined, they are entirely separate entities.

stone7

Shouldn't the OP's husband be asking for photos to establish the identity of the driver at this stage?

Who knows, it may well show he was using an electric razor and the police are mistaken.

Lum

sebdangerfield wrote: »

You are getting nip and s172 confused or merged. Nip is from s1RTOA and is to provide warning for drivers who may have committed an offence to provide time to develop o defence. The requirement to provide driver details is s172 RTA. The two are not joined, they are entirely separate entities.

They can be separate entities, however in practice they ARE merged. In the vast majority of police forces, camera-detected speed, red-light and mobile-phone offences get shoved into the exact same piece of software and get printed out using the exact same form template. The only difference is a mail merge field which instead of saying "Failure to obey a red light" says "Use of a mobile phone" or similar. Some of them even state the vehicle speed at the time the phone was being used!

cyclonebri1

moomoominx wrote: »

Hi i was wondering if anyone could help us - we have had a notice of intended prosecution hand delivered tonight - husband was caught on his mobile ( i know i know - no telling him off!) he takes full responsibility etc - but our worry is what is the procedure now - we know we have 28 days to send it back with driver details etc - but what happens then? will it go to court -or do they usually then send out a fixed penalty of £60 and 3 points? I think he has now learned his lesson now - on another note any suggestions for a decent handsfree system to go in his van would be good .......................... many thanks

Why would a NIP be hand delivered?, or do you just mean the postman caught him and placed it in his hand?:A

Rover_Driver

For convenience they may be printed on the same piece of paper, but they are completely separate entities, there is no legal connection connection between them.

A NIP is required for some offences by s.1 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, a request for the name and address of the driver is s.172 Road Traffic Act 1988.