School appeals - help offered

mandm65

Small clarification really, If a child is accepted in the third or fourth choice school, would you still have the option to appeal/find out why the child was not accepted for the first or second choice school?
Cheers

flea72

mandm65 wrote: »

Small clarification really, If a child is accepted in the third or fourth choice school, would you still have the option to appeal/find out why the child was not accepted for the first or second choice school?
Cheers

your rejection letter should give a reason for each school that was declined.

you can appeal a decision for any school, even ones you didnt apply to

F

Foreverinbluejeans

Hi, without going into masses of detail can anyone advise (preferably those with appeals experience) on the likelihood of an appeal win to an oversubscribed school (in year transfer) on the basis of this email that was sent to the head following an incident in the school;


Dear Mrs xxx,
!
I am writing to you regarding the quality of one of your science lessons and the teaching methods used in it today (March 14th)
!
I am the mother of xxx in form xx.
!
xxx has explained to me that she felt very uncomfortable in her science reproductive lesson today. xxx explained that Mr xxx said that he was going to lock the door because he didn't want members of staff coming in and seeing!swear words on the board. This in itself suggests to me that Mr xxx new what he was doing was wrong or may not be deemed appropriate. He then said that he was going to go around the class and!that he!wanted each of the children!to tell him a swear word and that they need to act maturely about this and concentrate. He proceeded to go around the class for swear words and wrote them on the board. Some of the swear words were !!!!, minge, !!!!!, dildo, japs eye, blue waffle, condom, homosexual, lesbian,!orgasm and anal sex to name a few. Mr xxx then went around the class again to ask if any of the class members had any more. Some children did and some passed. xxx contributed to the first round using the word !!!!! but passed on the second round. Mr xxx then said if anyone had anymore words to put their hand up.
!
At this point all the swear words were on the board. Mr xxx then highlighted the words minge, fanny and vagina and stated that the correct word was vagina. He then highlighted !!!!!! and penis (possibly more xxx can't remember as some of these words she is unfamiliar with) and then he stated penis was the correct word to use. He then highlighted slag and !!!!!! and said that this is what somebody gets called if they have slept around with different people.
!
Mr xxx proceeded to explain that semen and !!! is when a male ejaculates from!their penis. A class member xxx asked about what happens when a woman has an orgasm. Mr xxx then said that its different for a girl because (in xxx words)!they haven't got semen or !!! and girls can only !!! when the end of the womb gets dipped into something and that creates the orgasm but not all guys can hit the sensitive spot in the female and some girls can create an orgasm on their own by using a dildo. An other boy then contributed by saying that some girls use their fingers.
!
The board was apparently full with swear and sexual words. Mr xxx started to rub them off and said that the next lesson would involve looking at a model of the body. He then said if anyone felt uncomfortable to write their questions on a piece of paper and he would answer them.
!
I have asked xxx what she learned from that lesson to which she answered a few new swear words. I find this completely inappropriate. I then asked xxx how she felt throughout the lesson, she said she felt very uncomfortable in a mixed gender room and that it was very awkward.
!
xxx feels that the majority of the lesson!had nothing to do with the reproductive system and that Mr xxx , in her opinion wanted the students to say more swear words. This left xxx feeling vUery uncomfortable.
!
My main concerns! and questions that I would like a response to are:
!
1. Why was the classroom door locked?
2. As the school was highly critisied during its last Ofsted inspection for amongst other things the!quality of teaching, would this lesson, in this format and context been taught if an Ofsted inspector had been present?
3. Why would! a teacher encourage students to use swear word, in particular vulgar sexual swear words?
4. What were the learning outcomes expected from that lesson?
5. Was this a science lesson or a sex education lesson?
6. If it was a reproductive lesson as described by Mr xxx why was reference made to masturbation and anal sex?
!
I am in no way against sexual eduction lessons but this method of teaching seems unorthodox and highly unnecessary. I look forward to hearing your views
!
Please can you answer the points raised above as a matter of priority.
!
Yours sincerely
!


There is more that I could quote that would form the basis of my appeal but purely on this incident alone, how is this likely to be viewed.

Names removed for obvious reasons.

Many thanks

Stressed Parent

poet123

Goodness! I would want to know what the response from the school was before I could advise further.

peachyprice

I can't see what this has to do with an appeal.

You appeal against a decision based on the schools entry criteria, not on your criticism of another school. I don't think this will carry any weight at all.

It's one lesson, and whilst totally unaccceptable, unless you've exhausted the complaints procedure without success to remove your child because of it is a knee-jerk reaction that frankly won't be grounds to get a place at an over subscribed school.

balletshoes

my reply isn't regarding the appeals process foreverinbluejeans, but i just wanted to point out a couple of things. My sex education classes were in our science time (biology in fact, with a male biology teacher). While he didn't ask the class for swear words, my daughter's year 6 teachers who do the sex education lessons have, in the past, asked the class to tell them, at the start of the lesson, all the words they know for male and female sex organs. Obviously this included some swear words, but the teacher lets them get it all out in the first 5 or 10 minutes of the lesson, it reduces the giggling and whispering during the rest of the lesson, when they are taught about the proper names, functions, and the practicalities of what sex is.

Also, these year 6 lessons take place away from the rest of the classrooms where there are younger children, possibly to reduce the possibility of the younger children coming in/hearing the content of the lesson. Maybe thats why the teacher locked the door for this lesson?

Your daughter might have been feeling uncomfortable because of the subject matter, or because she was in a mixed class for this lesson, or because it was a male teacher etc etc - I remember feeling a bit cringy during my high school sex education biology lessons for sure!

I'd wait to see the reply you get from the school to your email, and consider it as objectively as you can.

Are you unhappy with the school in many/any other aspects?

poet123

I am assuming that there is a lot of correspondence re this issue as you state in your OP that the lesson happened in March. I would want to know the responses you have had and your responses to them.

Although, that said, I would find it hard to see how that type of issue could impact at appeal, unless you were alleging that that and other incidents appertaining to school life had so severely affected your daughter that she was experiencing serious mental health issues/behaviour issues because of them. That is a notoriously difficult thing to show at appeal and would require medical evidence. I do sit on appeal panels and we have very rarely found in favour on those grounds.

TeamLowe

Foreverinbluejeans, why does anything in what you have posted mean that the school you are appealing for is the only school your daughter can attend.
the admission authority will argue that either
a) the only way to deal with your issues with teaching methods effectively is through the headteacher/governing body
b) there's no garuntee the new school won't use similar teaching methods/other methods you don't find acceptable and an appeal panel can not make decisions on such
or
c) if it's just to avoid her still being at that school, then schools XYZ have spaces, take one of their spaces

i'd also ask around, see if similar methods are used in other schools, it sounds like my s e x education class for one and the panel may find it an acceptable teaching method

Foreverinbluejeans

Hi All,

Thank you very much for your thoughts and opinions. in answer to your questions asked:

Poet 123 - Yes, the head mistress called me that morning. She was horrified by the fact that the teacher had locked the class room and confirmed that contextual swear words are used, however this was above and beyond what she deemed acceptable. She said that the teacher in question required 'additional training and support'. This teacher is head of science. She had the lesson done with the child protection officer present. The lesson was conducted in a totally different manner.

Peachyprice - This is one of, in my opinion, many failings by the school. It is not a knee jerk reaction to what happened in March, quite the contrary, I have persevered with the school in the hope that the situation would improve.

Balletshoes - no, not happy with the school in many aspects.

Teamlowe - I am looking at many schools and considering a school which would be an hours bus journey for my daughter but naturally I would like for her to attend a well performing school in our home town, as naturally I would prefer that she didn't have to travel that far every day. I will be appealing for 2 schools.

In brief, further details that will form the basis of my appeal as to why my daughters education and well being are affected if she remains at her current school are:

1. The science teacher in question will not engage with my daughter following the complaint. Neither professional or acceptable. He will not choose her if she raises her hand to ask a question etc...sometimes she doesn't fully understand the subject matter and needs to ask questions.

2. My daughter was in top set for all subjects apart from Maths. However in Feb, she showed me her maths book and said she was finding the work too easy and spent most lessons helping others because she had finished the work in no time at all. I compared her Y7 text book to her Y6 and she was working at a similar level in primary school. I called the school to question this and they said that they would trial her in top set. To cut a long story short, within 2 weeks she was working at a higher level than the pupils in top set and over the past few weeks has been'marking the work' of other pupils in her class. My daughter should be given more work rather than marking other children's work, surely?

3. The school received 'special measures' in its recent Ofsted report, for amongst other things the quality of lessons and work set.

4. She constantly has cover teachers in key lessons and is regularly not set appropriate work.

5. Regarding the science incident; i discovered at a recent parents evening that my daughers form tutor was actually unaware that my daughter was locked in a classroom whilst inappropriate swear words were encouraged by her teacher, even though the head assured me that she would get all the support she needed following the incident. How can her form tutor not even have been made aware? Where was the support?

I appreciate that I haven't gone into any great detail and I could be here all night!

My understanding from the local authority is that if the appeals panel deem my daughters need greater than the schools need not to take her based on being oversubscribed then they will have to take her. I may not have a case for appeal but I just want my daughter to have the best possible education and school life opportunities and I feel I have to try.

My gut tells me that she is not reaching her full potential and she tells me that she feels uncomfortable at school so I have to try my best. I always listen to my gut!!

Thanks again for your thoughts everyone.

Poet 123 particularly interested on your take seeing as you have appeals panel experience. Thanks

Savvy_Sue

Foreverinbluejeans wrote: »

I am looking at many schools and considering a school which would be an hours bus journey for my daughter but naturally I would like for her to attend a well performing school in our home town, as naturally I would prefer that she didn't have to travel that far every day.

At secondary level, that is not so bad, TBH. I can see that it's less than ideal, but as long as the time at each end isn't too bad then it's quite common for journeys to be quite long.

Bear in mind though that you're not likely to get your transport costs covered by the LA (because they will say that it's not the closest appropriate school), and you may need a 'Plan B' for when your DD misses the bus (especially if it's a school bus!) there or back, or the bus service is cancelled entirely, or she wants to stay for after school activities, or wants to visit friends / have friends back. The school my boys went to had a very wide 'catchment' area, so their friends lived all over the city and out into the sticks.