School appeals - help offered

poet123

The crucial aspect is that in Reception there cannot by law be more than 30 with one teacher. So, if another child got in on appeal taking the number to 31 the school would be required to fund that extra teacher from current budget, which would affect resources for other children. That is the angle they will use at appeal, and really there is no way to counter that under the circumstances you detail.

Re the Non Christian and distance from school, that is generally only used in tie breaker situations not as a criteria, so for example if there were two applications in cat 8 as shown below and only one place left then the tie breaker would come into play.


Where the number of applications exceeds the number of places available
the Governing Body will apply the following over-subscription criteria below:
1. Baptised* Catholic children who are in the care of the Local Authority (looked
after children).
2. Baptised* Catholic children living in the designated Parish(es)
3. Baptised* Catholic children who have a brother or a sister at the school at
the time of likely admission. This includes full, half or stepbrothers and sisters,
adopted and foster brothers and sisters or children of the parent/carer’s
partner, and in every case who are living at the same address and are part of
the same family unit.
4. Baptised* Catholic children living in other Catholic parishes.
5. Children who are in the care of the Local Authority (looked after children)
other than Catholic.
6. Children who are other than Catholic who have a brother or a sister at the
school at the time of likely admission. This includes full, half or stepbrothers
and sisters, adopted and foster brothers and sisters or children of the
parent/carer’s partner, and in every case who are living at the same address and
are part of the same family unit.
7. Children from other Christian denominations. Proof of Baptism in form of
Baptismal Certificate or confirmation in writing that the applicant is a member
of their Faith community from an appropriate Minister of Religion is required.
8. Children of other faiths. An appropriate Faith Leader would need to confirm
in writing that the applicant is a member of their faith group.
9. Children whose parents express a preference for a place at the school.
TIE-BREAKER
In the event of any over-subscription in the number of applications made under
any of the categories above then the admissions committee will offer places
first to children living nearest to the school measured in a straight line distance
from the address of the house/flat to the main front door of the school as
measured by the Local Authority.

* Baptised Catholic means, within the policies and practices relating to
school admissions, any child who, before the due date of application, is a
baptised Catholic or who, having been baptised into another Christian
denomination whose baptisms are recognised by the Catholic Church, has
subsequently been formally received into the Catholic Church.

Hope this helps, but truthfully, if the circumstances are exactly as you outline an appeal is unlikely to succeed. Sorry!

ETA We use an LEA computer prog to work out the distances and we check them manually as well.

JoJoArmani

Thanks again Poet for taking the time to reply, I really do appreciate it.

In this school there will be 46 admissions into reception in 2011. They will split into 2 classes of 23. It is only next year that "possibly" there could be an infant class size prejudice. But, they still have capacity next year as they can re-arrange the classes as required. 5 Infant classes with 137 infants would fit wouldn't it?

(Please say yes !)

poet123

So, each of the two Reception classes will be 23? and overall, even if they admit your child they will still be within the permitted school numbers as per their asset plan? (the document which defines the allowed numbers)that does change things slightly, but was all this in the criteria? do you know how far down the criteria they got when allocating places? do you know if others are appealing?

The problem with rearranging classes is that it is called Vertical Streaming and parents hate it. It was mooted at my school and caused such an uproar that it was never mentioned again, hence the fanatical adherence to the admission criteria to ensure we are never put in that position again.

Without seeing the criteria I can't really comment definitively. All I would say is that in the circumstances you outline the school are still well within the 30 legal limit and so have less to lose by going to appeal. In the light of this, they may just be testing the waters, trying to keep to 23, and if they lose they lose, so you do have a better chance with the panel, as if the numbers are at 30 there is no leeway, and rarely would an appeal succeed, because the panel are aware of the financial implications. That financial imperative has been removed.

However, the sticking point is still the baptism if you go down the we want the faith school education route as grounds for appeal, being honest none of the reasons you cite would hold water in the eyes of the church.

JoJoArmani

The physical capacity of the school is 320 (11 class rooms and 11.6 equivalent FT teachers) - the Net capacity is supposed to be 300 but the last few years the school has had over 300 - 309 this year.

The school has had mixed aged classes since my eldest was in reception - they used to asses and decided on the classes year on year - then the new head decided to set them at 3 classes per age set of yr 1/2; 3/4 and 5/6 and 2 receptions of 23/22. So they have had the mixed the ages for many years.

When my eldest joined school all the 44 children were in one class - they must have had 2 teachers - but I guess this was before the new 30 rule. But back then they only had 10 classes and 10.5 equiv teachers - with 298 on the role. So now they have an extra class and and extra teacher (and double the number of teaching assistants) but only 10 or so more children.

JoJoArmani

Oh - yes 9 are appealing in total. And my daughter is 2nd on the waiting list - there is another Baptised catholic ahead of her who lives closer to school.

SUMMARY OF POLICY ▼ This is a Voluntary Aided school – please contact the school for full
admission details.
1. Baptised looked-after Catholic children.
2. Baptised Catholic children who live in the parish of St's with a sibling in the school at the time
of expected admission.
3. Other Baptised Catholic children who live in the parish of St’s.
4. Other Baptised Catholic with a sibling in the school at the time of expected admission.
5. Other Baptised Catholic children.
6. Other looked-after children.
7. Other children with a sibling in school at the time of expected admission.
8. Children with social or medical needs where the application is accompanied by a declaration from an
appropriate medical professional naming the school.
9. Other children.

poet123

If you pm me a link to the school website I will look at the criteria. Must make Dinner now!!

gauly

poet123 wrote: »

Without seeing the criteria I can't really comment definitively. All I would say is that in the circumstances you outline the school are still well within the 30 legal limit and so have less to lose by going to appeal. In the light of this, they may just be testing the waters, trying to keep to 23, and if they lose they lose, so you do have a better chance with the panel, as if the numbers are at 30 there is no leeway, and rarely would an appeal succeed, because the panel are aware of the financial implications. That financial imperative has been removed.

I appealed for a school with the same arrangement (45 in reception split into two classes of 22 and 23). We were told by the council that the 30 per year rule still applies because if they admitted more than 45 they would be overcrowded further up the school. Sorry to disapoint you.

Do tell the school about the babtism though. In our area, after the appeals have gone through, the waiting list is ordered according to the entry criteria and you should move up to first place (not good for us because it meant other people moving into the area ended up jumping ahead of us!)

JC9297

[QUOTE=JoJoArmani;44734500E=Unfortunately we are on the 2nd from bottom rung - Other with a sibling in school. There is no provision for practising or not - only baptised or not. I'm annoyed with myself for not sorting out her baptism ages ago but it was always put off - no money, family can't come - my brother lives abroad, too busy (had 2 babies in 12 months) etc etc. My fault but not her fault.

Just hope I can argue her case.[/QUOTE]

I think if she is not baptised then even if she goes to mass she cannot be a practising Catholic, as she is not actually classed as a Catholic without the baptism, IYSWIM. In fact without being baptised she is classed as having no formal religion, which is why she comes under the criteria of other.

I think also the school may argue that your Catholicism cannot be that important if you haven't made the baptism of your daughter a priority in her first 4 years, and if you were to do it now as someone suggested that may be viewed rather cynically. Obviously as you have another child at the school they will already have an idea of your family's commitment, but nobody knows how much that will help.

JoJoArmani

Well all has gone quiet on this subject...... Our appeal was unsuccessful as everyone predicted.

It was one of the most traumatic things I have put myself through! I cried nearly all the way through like a massive idiot - I was just so over-emotional it was horrible.

Anyway, I made my point and the panel were sympathetic but ultimately could not overrule the decision.

But I am a bit miffed that in the transcript of the panel's decision that my main point was not noted - the fact that the school are already oversubscribed for next years yr 1 classes anyway so why not let 1 more in. I specifically asked the head about this and she admited that next year if nothing changes they will have to either employ another teacher or mix reception and yr1.

Anyway, middle daughter will just have to go to the nearest school and we will have to hope for the best that my partner can collect them both on time.

JoJoArmani

I think also the school may argue that your Catholicism cannot be that important if you haven't made the baptism of your daughter a priority in her first 4 years, and if you were to do it now as someone suggested that may be viewed rather cynically.


Many would think this to be true. Anyone who knows us would know it is not the case.