We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

School appeals - help offered

1117118120122123127

Comments

  • silvercar
    silvercar Posts: 49,870 Ambassador
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Academoney Grad Name Dropper
    I would think that if twin 1 wins appeal, twin 2 flies up the waiting list to whatever ranking multiple birth sibling has. You can't appeal for twin 2 now, as the status doesn't change until twin 1 gets their place.
    I'm a Forum Ambassador on the housing, mortgages & student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
  • IyaBeji
    IyaBeji Posts: 7 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post
    Thanks @silvercar this is our thinking because in reality, we don't have grounds to appeal for other twin.
    As we've only submitted our
    "notice of appeal" (200) words, what sort of information should I be asking the school for to prepare our case?  I want to focus on the small size of the school being more suitable so child doesn't get overwhelmed etc.  I have Consultant's letters supporting us.  Is there anything I need to be looking at?  Asking the school?  Do I need to ask how may they admitted and if they went over their PAN?
  • TripleH
    TripleH Posts: 3,188 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    What year are the girls going into?
    You suggest appealing on medical grounds, in my day there was a 'Statement of Special Educational Needs' which meant a different appeals process to the normal appeal. Do you fall under this? 
    If so you may need to appeal to a different panel.
    Above comes from being a Clerk to School Appeals although that was over 15 years ago so my knowledge is not up to date
    May you find your sister soon Helli.
    Sleep well.
  • IyaBeji
    IyaBeji Posts: 7 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post
    edited 21 April 2020 at 3:34PM

    Hi @TripleH child doesn't have a statement but is on the SEN register.  We';re applying for secondary school year 7 September start.  The school we've applied or has a "medical" criterion: "Children/Students for whom it is essential to be admitted to this school because of special circumstances to do with significant medical needs evidenced by written professional advice from a doctor or other health professional, explaining why these needs can realistically only be met by [this school]”.

    Please see my original post as I had a few questions.  Thanks very much:

     

    Hello,
    Hoping someone can help and THANK YOU in advance!
    We didn't get our preferred secondary school and are in the process of appealing.
    Set of twins.  For both children, we fall into the "distance" criterion which is number low down the list of criteria (number 5) but we had hoped one twin would be ranked under "medical" criterion (number 2) and we supplied letters from the hospital consultant and we explained why the school is suitable.  Unfortunately, we understand that the Admissions Committee decided that the needs could be met by other schools and not only this and was therefore not ranked under the "medical" criterion.

    We're in the process of appealing but realistically, have no grounds for appeal because it is a small school so if they're full, they're full and "distance" is really low down the list of oversubscription criteria.  We have decided to appeal for the one child under medical i.e: "we believe the admission arrangements were not correctly applied by not ranking child against the “medical criterion, effectively denying child a place."
    Please clarify:
    - if our appeal is successful, does other twin automatically get offered a place like normal applications where further child(ren) from a multiple birth are offered place(s) if the last place available with the PAN was offered to their multiple birth sibling?
    -If the answer to above is no, what are our options?  Do we put in an appeal for second twin AFTER the outcome of first appeal saying, best in same school etc?  OR is it worth putting in an appeal for second twin now eventhough we do not have grounds?  Is this something that will be relevant for appeal, even if we do not appeal?
    If our appeal is unsuccessful, then we'll monitor the list and see where are around August.  We are currently numbers 50/51 on the waiting list.  In the meantime, we've got a place at another school but we're hoping to get places at this school.

    We have submitted our "notice of appeal" (200) words.  We have not received the school's statement of case so I am not sure of the exact wording.  I understand the statement  will be sent to us when they send information about the date and format (I am guessing it will be by phone becasue of the lockdown) but we are trying to do as much preparation as possible to prepare our response.
    What sort of information should I ask the school for e.g.
    - the number of children admitted this year - is school over PAN this year?
    Anything else I need to ask the school to provide me before the appeal?
    Is it an issue that I haven't received their statement of case?  I am concerned that I may not have enough time to prepare my response if they send me the case at the same time at the appeal date.
     My understanding had been that I should have received their case BEFORE information about appeal date [please correct mem if this is incorrect].
    Apologies if incoherent and for the length and THANK YOU for reading.
    KEEP SAFE

  • sheramber
    sheramber Posts: 23,062 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts I've been Money Tipped! Name Dropper
    If other schools can meet her need why do you particularly want this one?
  • IyaBeji
    IyaBeji Posts: 7 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post
    @sheramber it is this school that is suggesting that other schools can meet needs.  My original post (above) I particularly want this because of the small size and an environment not too overwhelming.  I know the "Outstanding" and "faith" aspects are not relevant for an appeal.
  • TripleH
    TripleH Posts: 3,188 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Right, if it's year 7 you have more scope for appeal. I would submit an appeal for both daughters to ensure you are on the waiting list for the school you prefer. Emphasise on the reasons why the school would be best suited to your daughter who has the greater need but also why you would prefer both to go to the same school. In the meantime I would also just clarify with the LEA if being on the SEN register means you can go through the standard appeal process. 
    As stated, it's a long time since I have had dealings over school appeals (in different career completely now) and rules may have changed in the meantime.
    May you find your sister soon Helli.
    Sleep well.
  • IyaBeji
    IyaBeji Posts: 7 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post
    Thanks @TripleH that's helpful.
    A child on the SEN register without a statement, goes through the standard appeal process.
    I just realised (and amended) an error in my original post.  "Medical" is number 2 criterion not 5, whilst "distance" is number 5.  This is why I was focusing on medical for one child and hoping the other could get in too.  I'll review my draft statement of response.
  • pinkshoes
    pinkshoes Posts: 20,607 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    IyaBeji said:
    Thanks @TripleH that's helpful.
    A child on the SEN register without a statement, goes through the standard appeal process.
    I just realised (and amended) an error in my original post.  "Medical" is number 2 criterion not 5, whilst "distance" is number 5.  This is why I was focusing on medical for one child and hoping the other could get in too.  I'll review my draft statement of response.
    Surely if you have twins, they then have to offer BOTH the place, even if it takes the numbers over 30? e.g. if one should be offered a place based on medical grounds, then they will need to offer both twins a place regardless of whether the other has medical needs. 

    (I have twins, and also run a twins group, and this was printed in our membership magazine we receive)

    I'm also a teacher, and one year group at my school with capacity 240 had 239 kids, and our last applicant was twins, putting the numbers up to 241!

    You often find you don't hear about getting a place if you are on a waiting list until term actually starts, as a school cannot remove kids from their register until they are officially registered elsewhere.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
  • TripleH
    TripleH Posts: 3,188 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I think as this is Year 7 the 30 class rule doesn't apply. The capacity can be exceeded on appeal (I exclude the 30 class size ruling in this). Capacity is a decided amount for each year based on the size of the schools (determined by the LEA) for the allocation of places based on an unemotional set of criteria. Appeals are used to look at individual cases to determine if the circumstances presented outweight the issues caused by exceeding the capacity limit.
    I have known schools exceed their 'capacity' by over 40 children (these were secondary not primary schools) due to appeals, albeit the size of the year was over 300.
    Again, my knowledge is based on experience over 15 years ago as a Clerk to Appeals and legislation could have changed significantly since then.
    May you find your sister soon Helli.
    Sleep well.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 351.9K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 454.1K Spending & Discounts
  • 244.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 600.5K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177.4K Life & Family
  • 258.7K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.