School appeals - help offered

MrsTandCo

silvercar wrote: »

Sorry you find yourself in this situation.

The bottom line is that popular schools are oversubscribed and if they don't have places they can't offer them.

However hard this is on your family, there is little anyone can do. Mid year places are often difficult to find in oversubscribed schools. Places do however pop up at the beginning of the school year, where inevitably one or two families may move away or change schools.

As for your appeal, really you need to check that the criteria has been followed. But with no places it is going to be hard. The line that the difference to the school in providing a place for your child is less of an impact for them, than the impact on your family bynot having a place.

Some of your arguments are quite weak and I would tend not to emphasise them. How you as a family unit works out how to get your children to school is a matter for you not the school. Learning to drive, budgeting for a bus, setting up a rota with a nearby family are all things to consider.

At the end of the day you chose to move to the house without properly considering how you would manage if you didn't get the school of your choice.

Thanks for the quick response silvercar. It's true, we didn't have time to properly consider moving Max midterm. The house we bought came onto the market all of a sudden and it was too good an opportunity to turn down. We couldn't afford to dither and lose it, as obviously, it's in a desirable spot given how great the school is.
With regards to checking that the criteria were followed, is that relevant if they are oversubscribed? They filled all of their 60 available places out of the 217 applications the had, although the last places they filled were due to proximity to the school. Pretty sure we live closer than anyone else, but as we applied long after anyone else, does that matter?
I know we're going to have to demonstrate that Max's need for a place at the school outweighs their difficulties taking him, but what trumps their prejudice, aside from the kind of things I've listed? Can we invoke the Fair Access Protocol as our LA Admissions Leaflet says that the FAP Officer can liaise with local schools if your child isn't offered a school place within a reasonable distance? 2.7 miles is not a reasonable distance for us.
Thanks again for your help.

silvercar

They filled all of their 60 available places out of the 217 applications the had, although the last places they filled were due to proximity to the school. Pretty sure we live closer than anyone else, but as we applied long after anyone else, does that matter?

That would be an example of winning an appeal - if you lived nearer than someone else who was offered a place by the distance rule. Obviously they can't have foreseen that you would come along and apply later in the year, so that wouldn't win an appeal now.

You want to find out what the criteria is for the waiting list (or places offered outside normal admission times). Does it follow normal admission criteria - in which case distance from school will be important, or is there a different rule eg when you applied?

Check for this school and any other you will consider. Remember also you can accept another place and also stay on the continued interest list for your favoured school.

Can we invoke the Fair Access Protocol as our LA Admissions Leaflet says that the FAP Officer can liaise with local schools if your child isn't offered a school place within a reasonable distance?

Try everything! I guess it depends on area, but reasonable distance may mean different things in different places. Round here (and I would say in lots of areas 2.7 miles is not excessive).

MrsTandCo

Thanks Silvercar. I'll give Admissions a bell once they make it into the office! Good old snow!

MrsTandCo

Hi Folks,

Just picking your brains again, in the absence of LA Admissions thanks to the snow!

Last night I trawled the internet and found some Ofsted reports for our preferred school which were linked to the school's old URN; swapped for a new one when they converted to an Academy in 2014.

Having read through all 6 full Ofsted reports, I've noticed that although the PAN has been set at 420 pupils since at least 1999, the school has in all subsequent report years, admitted a number of pupils in excess of this figure. In 2006, the school exceeded their PAN by 17 pupils! Having read the reports in their entirety, not a single one mentions overcrowding or limited resources due to the additional pupils above PAN. Mention is also made by staff and parents via Parent View in these reports, that both pupils and staff are happy and safe.
So, will it help my case now that I am in a position to demonstrate via these Ofsted reports, that the school has catered for larger numbers of pupils in the past without significant detriment to the existing pupils?

I have also taken a copy of a letter from the current Head teacher dated January of this year, that says that pupils are flourishing and continue to grow. This is presumably despite the school currently having 6 extra pupils over and above their PAN.

What kind of evidence will the appeals panel need to see to back these assertations up?
Do I need to take in copies of all the Ofsted reports showing the school over PAN and kids doing well? Will the letter from the Head, confirming that the pupils are doing well, also help support my case?

Thanks again in advance for your help,
Kelly

Savvy_Sue

There is a book by Ben Rooney called How to Win your School Appeal which is very well thought of: I'd order that either to buy or from your local library.

I don't think that historically being over PAN is a strong ground for appeal, although if you discover that some children are known to be leaving then it MAY be worth pointing out that there will be no increase on the year group size if your child is admitted. However your child isn't necessarily going to be the one to benefit from that.

Being practical, have you researched schools which would be easier to get to than the one that's been offered and seen if they have spaces? Not necessarily closer, but maybe on one bus route.

Also you said 'no-one has time for that surely' in terms of walking 48 minutes to and from school, but I have known families walk that distance, with a buggy ...

MrsTandCo

Thanks Savvy Sue,

I'm still trying to get my head round all the wrangling of facts and thought that if I could show they'd gone over PAN, they couldn't claim they wouldn't exceed it for Max. I'm learning!

I bought the Ben Rooney book this week after reading through this entire thread, thank you! It arrived today, so I've started going through it with a highlighter as I put together our case.

The allocated school was the school closest to us with available places. All the others are also oversubscribed too, so 2.4 miles is the closest school he can get to that'll have him. I've looked into buses, but the journey involves two buses and a walk either side, so the journey time winds up the same, (or longer, if buses are late or cancelled). Taxis will cost us about £70 per week, (cheapest found so far), which is a prohibitive cost and because he's 8, the local council won't covet his transport, as the school is less than three miles away.
When I said no-one has time for a 48 minute walk each day, I was thinking more of me than Max, who would have to do it twice. I'd obviously have to do it four times as there's no way I'd let him walk alone until he's much older. Then it becomes 3 hours and 12 minutes walk a day ,with my toddler strapped into his pushchair or walking. That kind of distance would become untenable for me as a responsible parent, if the weather was like it has been this week.
There are ten schools between our home and the allocated school, including our preferred school, which Max's bedroom overlooks. We need to find a place for him at one of them, or home school if no place comes up.

I did a bit of internet hunting today and found out that this week, the preferred school have had approval granted to add a single storey extension to the school. When it's finished, there'll be three more classrooms, additional toilets etc. (297m2 more space!). A better angle to fight our corner from??
Also, the school's undergone some extensions over the years but no change in PAN. Do you think they've ever adjusted their Net Capacity and if not, that'll strengthen my case too, surely? Who can tell me about the school's net capacity data?

Thanks so much for all your help and advice.

Kelly:)

Savvy_Sue

I think you need to get in touch with the school and start making friends there. The LEA might be able to tell you if the net capacity has been adjusted, but personally I wouldn't hold your breath for them doing so now. And again, if they do, it may not be your child who benefits - I don't know if in-year applications get any sort of priority over children already on the waiting list. This where Ben Rooney and the latest appeals procedures are your friend. ;-)

Also, I was suggesting that you should consider looking at schools further away than the one you've been offered, but potentially easier to get to. I can't instantly 'map' all our local primary schools, but I know some of them are on bus routes convenient for me, and some of them aren't.

Also just checking, have you asked to be placed on the waiting lists for your two preferred schools and asked where you'd be on those lists? I feel I've read a partial answer to that but can't quickly spot it.

and do you have dates for the completion of this extension? I know it took my local primary several years - more than your son has left before he goes to secondary school! - to get a building project through the planning process and completed. During that time all the junior age children were moved to the infant site a mile away. It was very unsatisfactory. Does 'approval' mean the money is there, or does the LEA just agree that it's needed?

And finally, I thought a bit about this:

MrsTandCo wrote: »

I have also taken a copy of a letter from the current Head teacher dated January of this year, that says that pupils are flourishing and continue to grow. This is presumably despite the school currently having 6 extra pupils over and above their PAN.

<snip>

Will the letter from the Head, confirming that the pupils are doing well, also help support my case?

But no head teacher is going to say anything other than this, are they? It's just not going to happen. If the school is in special measures, they might add something like "despite the challenging circumstances the school has faced in the last year", but I'd be astonished if you could find a head being anything other than completely positive about their school.

Your best grounds for appeal are showing that the LEA made an error in not giving your son a place. That's unlikely, given that you are an In Year admission.

Your second best grounds for appeal are showing that ONLY your chosen school can meet your son's needs, or that your chosen school can BEST meet your son's needs in ways that other schools can't. You have to do this without rubbishing other schools. You've said a few things which indicate he MAY have special needs, but nothing concrete. If he does have special needs, details should have been submitted with your application.

Keep reading the Ben Rooney book ... but make sure you are aware of any changes in the processes since whatever edition you're reading.

pinkshoes

MrsTandCo, as well as appealing, I would also come up with a plan B just in case your appeal fails.

School numbers CAN be flexible. I'm at a secondary school where our proposed numbers are 7 forms of 28 kids. We can, however, go up to 30 per form, which is an extra 14 kids per year group.

We also cannot take kids off the role until another school puts them on, so some places do not appear until the first day of term. A friend got her two kids into a new school on this basis when they moved, as they were originally told they were unlikely to get a place.

In the mean time, If no entry until September is looking likely, I would consider home schooling.

MrsTandCo

Thank you both.

Max is on the waiting list for both our preferred school at the bottom of he garden, and the next nearest half decent school 25 minutes walk away, although neither would tell me where he is on the waiting list. Both schools use the admission criteria to place pupils on the waiting list, so despite our in year application, we'll have been ranked higher than anyone living further away from us, unless they are a looked after child or have a sibling already at the school.

Thanks for the tip, checking which edition of the Ben Rooney book I have. I've read so many websites this week, I've not seen anything in the book yet that sounds outdated.

Pink shoes - Plan B is definitely home schooling for us. In fact, we trial ran a HS day when we were snowed off this week, and I joined all the online support groups and researched resources available to us etc. I fully expect us to have to HS a little anyhow, as we move in a month and that leaves little time for us to attend an appeal and get him into a school setting. I think I actually might prefer to HS Max, but he's been institutionalised somewhat, and our preferred school is so good, that if there's even a little hope of us getting him in there, we'll take it. The Local Authority stats for last year say that 9 appeals were heard for non infant places, and 2 upheld, so it'll be hard, but not impossible, and we have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I'll get in touch with the school on Monday. Last week, I was trying to get my head round our case and then the snow hit and no-one was available at the school or in Admissions. I have a look good list of questions for them both to answer! Will the school just give me that information about year groups and class sizes?

As for the building works, they have three years until the permission expires, but they have already been in consultation with the local water provider, so hopefully sooner rather than later. A friend of a friend said that the school called a Crisis Meeting with the Governor's last week, so maybe connected? It sounded a bit like they might be gearing up for something major to happen. Looking through the planning paperwork, all the architectural drawings are in place, and the paperwork looks to have been completed by an actual building contractor. I would say that the money is there and they have the go-ahead to start whenever they're ready. How do you find all these things out? We don't live locally at the moment still, so no friends to tap up at the school.

I've got another date with Ben Rooney tonight and hoping that a report from Max's form teacher will help us to demonstrate that the preferred school is the best school for Max's needs.

Savvy_Sue

MrsTandCo wrote: »

I've got another date with Ben Rooney tonight and hoping that a report from Max's form teacher will help us to demonstrate that the preferred school is the best school for Max's needs.

:rotfl:

That's good that even though you're an in year application, distance is relevant. That may well play to your advantage.