Bichon Frise/Shih tzu puppies

live'n'learn

RooBee wrote: »

If you're going to buy a new TV, then it's reasonable to look for a bargain.

When you're talking about a living, breathing, sentient animal to live as part of your family for the next 12+ years, then it's not the time to try to save a few quid.

You've already had good advice from kidshorsesdogs about what to look for in a breeder. Both breeds that you are considering are much favoured by puppy farmers so please do ensure that you do your checks to ensure any puppy you choose has been ethically and responsibly bred and don't be swayed by price.

Maybe a bargain was not the correct word to use its just I have seen them for sale from £250-£500 so why the huge difference in price? would like to pay £250 but would this mean a better chance of getting a problem dog?

RooBee

The price is immaterial really. The type of breeder is more important. Some puppy farms will charge you as much for a pup as a breeder who has put their heart and soul into producing a healthy litter with excellent temperament who are good physical examples of the breed.

What you're looking for is the latter type of breeder...someone who is breeding to improve the breed as a whole and who give a lifelong commitment to their pups in that they'll always be available to you for help and advice or, more practically, will insist on having the dog back at any stage in it's life if for any reason you cannot keep it. A good breeder is not producing puppies to fund their holiday; or doing so for a living with lots of dogs of different breeds available at any given time (i.e. puppy farming); or breeding just because they can.

I'll PM you with some possible contacts that may be able to help you further.

live'n'learn

RooBee wrote: »

The price is immaterial really. The type of breeder is more important. Some puppy farms will charge you as much for a pup as a breeder who has put their heart and soul into producing a healthy litter with excellent temperament who are good physical examples of the breed.

What you're looking for is the latter type of breeder...someone who is breeding to improve the breed as a whole and who give a lifelong commitment to their pups in that they'll always be available to you for help and advice or, more practically, will insist on having the dog back at any stage in it's life if for any reason you cannot keep it. A good breeder is not producing puppies to fund their holiday; or doing so for a living with lots of dogs of different breeds available at any given time (i.e. puppy farming); or breeding just because they can.

I'll PM you with some possible contacts that may be able to help you further.

Many thanks,

I did not want to come across as a cheap skate but I have done some research for what dog I think we could manage but like many recently money is limited but would love to give a puppy a great home.

jennifer12

Keep your eye out on gumtree. I got my full breed 7month old puppy- £150. Due to the family realising after buying her, they didn't have time. I looked daily. Good luck:)

pinkcandyflossprincess

please also take into account the expensive grooming costs involved in a long hair breed. daily brushing is a must and trips to the groomers all add up.
i would personally allways go with a kc registered puppy or look for an older rescue dog that is suited to a family.
usually the one year old dogs seen on gumtree etc are from people who have now got bored of puppy, sick of the now teen dog piddling everywhere etc and you will end up with a dog you didnt really imagine when you first set out on getting one. if unneutered the males can get a bit boisterous and nippy. I would think carefully on this.
shih tzus are lovely dogs, my mom has one but they are still dogs and unless trained from an early age its the same as any dog..they can be terrors!

bichon frises are very intelligent little dogs and are known for "naughty traits" usually because owners baby them instead of treating them as the dog they are, with lots of training they can be a joy to watch and are quick to pick up tricks etc.

personally im against crossbreeding these type of dogs as my personal opinion is it is likely to bring out the worst traits in them rather than the best. they both have a different type of coat for instance so why create a problem in that area?

save up, research the breed and ask advice from registered breeders , then if you want to go ahead.good luck x

live'n'learn

Just to give an update, I have been in touch with someone selling shih tzu puppies so need some advice on what to look out for! All I know so far is that I am able to see the puppies in their home with the mum which is a positive thing! The puppies have had the worm treatment and vet checked but no vaccinations! They are 8 weeks old and selling for £250!!

Any advice would be great!!

RooBee

No vaccinations is normal. Some people will advertise pups as coming with first vaccinations for you to complete the second one but not all vets use the same brand of vaccination and you would either have to find a vet that routinely uses the same brand or restart the vaccination course from scratch with the chosen brand of your vet - not good to risk over-vaccinating at such a young age, IMO.

With regard to what to look for from the breeder:
Have the puppies been reared in the home - just because you see them in a house doesn't mean they weren't reared in a shed/outhouse. Puppies should be reared indoors to get them used to normal household activity and noises. It's fundamental to their early socialisation.

Are there several other breeds on the premises? Are there other puppies available of the same or different breeds available? If so, this is almost certainly a puppy farm. Google the telephone number/address of the breeder - that can give you an idea of whether they produce lots of litters or not.

Are the puppies clean? Ignore any fragments of dried on food as they are messy !!!!!!s but they shouldn't smell of wee/poo or have filthy coats (usually indicative of having been reared in an outhouse).

Look for clear eyes and noses...no runny discharge or coat staining around eyes and nose.

Ask why the litter has been bred. Good breeders who are breeding for the betterment of the breed as a whole will volunteer this information happily. If the litter has only been bred to produce puppies to sell, I'd walk away. But I guess that's between you and your conscience.

Is the puppy KC registered? If not, why not. If the parents are KC registered and the pups aren't there can be a number of reasons for this, most of which ring alarm bells...
- the mother may be too young od too old (KC will not register pups from mothers who were under one year old at point of mating or over 8 years old)
- the parents may be closely related - KC will not register litters bred from dogs that are directly related (mother/son, sister/brother etc)
- the parents' pedigrees may be endorsed to prevent any offspring from being registered with the KC without the express permission of the breeder of the parent dogs. Endorsements are used by GOOD breeders to ensure that their dogs are less desirable to those people who just want to make money from producing litters and to protect their breeding lines.

Also avoid anyone who tries to charge an extortionate amount for puppies that are KC registered as opposed to ones that aren't. It costs £13 to register a puppy with the KC but many less scrupulous people will say that it's too expensive to make it worthwhile for a purely pet puppy. Usually, it's because they're using the KC status of the parents as a selling point but, actually, they can't register the pups for one of the reasons listed above.

While KC registration is not the be-all and end-all it is some guarantee that you're getting the breed you think you are. It's alarmingly common for people to buy a pup that they think is one breed but by the age of 6 months or so it's glaringly obvious that the pup is a crossbreed.

What aftersales support is there? That may sound odd but good breeders will be happy to be at the end of the phone for help and advice with any aspect of rearing the pup and beyond into adulthood. They should also insist on having the pup back if for ANY reason you can't keep it at any stage of it's life. If the breeder isn't interested in anything other than taking your money, handing over the pup and waving your goodbye...walk away. They will have had the same level of disregard for the production of the litter.

It's hard in the face of cute, fluffy puppies but make the decision with your head and not your heart. If something feels not right, WALK AWAY. There will be more puppies available, one of which will be right for you. You are buying a dog that you want to be part of your life for the next 12+ years. It should be as healthy as is reasonably possible to guarantee and with excellent temperament. Do not take a chance on this. You might live to regret it.

live'n'learn

Roobee,

thanks for the info.

I googled the address i have been given and the only thing i could find apart from the puppies being advertised elsewhere was the same owner was selling similiar puppies around Oct 2011.

He give me some advice via text and send me a photo of 3 of the puppies when i asked. They have yet to ask me any questions about what kind of owner i have been and are happy for me to collect the puppie from their home.

RooBee

Check if those October puppies are from the same mother. If so, that's a very bad thing as she will have been bred on successive seasons which is very poor form indeed.

I'd be very concerned about the lack of questions too. Sounds very much like these pups are just a cash generator. You will really be taking a huge gamble on health and temeprament. Not to mention supporting and encouraging such irresponsible breeding practices.

live'n'learn

Well found myself a beautiful little shih tzu boy that i am able to get around May 9th. Was very happy after going to visit him yesterday. Saw the mother & father of the pup. Woman who breeds them was very nice.