A similar AST expiry question but still confused.

Sisyphus

Hi, another similar AST question.

Our 12month AST ends on April 17th. The landlords (advised by the letting agent) wish us to renew for a full 12 months with no break clause. They live abroad and are coming back in one year. So I can understand their reasoning. I personally don't want to commit to a full year's contract.
Obviously if we move home we would have to do that anyway but I don't see why they should force my hand. My first choice is to revert to periodic tenancy but I'd be flexible and offer a two way two month notice. They are camping on their position.
Can they expect me to leave on April 17th as the agent is trying to imply. No official notice has been served - do they have to do that even if the original AST expires on that date? Having just re-read the original Agreement there is a clause on the front page that reads as follows:

c)The Landlord hereby gives notice to the Tenant:-
That this Agreement is intended to create an Assured Shorthold Tenancy within Part 1 Chapter II of the Housing Act 1988 and the provisions for the recovery of possession by the Landlord in Section 21 thereof apply accordingly, save where the Landlord serves a notice under paragraph 2 of Schedule 2A to that Act.

Is that clause sufficient as Notice under Section 21 or do they need to send us a seperate letter?

thesaint

The S21 needs to be served after the tenancy agrement has been signed.
Is the clause you quoted part of your tenancy agreement?

Sisyphus

thesaint wrote:

The S21 needs to be served after the tenancy agrement has been signed.
Is the clause you quoted part of your tenancy agreement?

yes it is on the front page.

I think the letting Agent is either ignorant or trying to pull the wool over our eyes. They are giving us a 24hour ultimatum to agree. Basic bully boy tactics. I'd normally be happy to stay on in the property.We've been good tenants but this is beginning to leave a sour taste.

thesaint

They can expect you to leave on the 17th April, but they can not force you to. If you refuse to sign a new contract, they may give you notice to leave anyway.

In the meantime your tenancy would revert to a periodic one.

I would guess that the landlord wouldn't be too bothered about it, but the letting agent want you to sign up and therefore get a fee.

Sisyphus

Well the landlords intend to move back into the property in one year's time, if we were to leave after another 6 months then that could make life more difficult for them. But I have no wish to be the guarantor of their rent for one year. I could see myself staying on for another year but I feel that after having given them the first year without even a break clause I should be allowed the flexibility.
What I really wanted to be sure of is that if they want us to leave they are obliged to give us 2 months notice and cannot just rely on the date of the contract.

Gorgeous_George

Yes, I believe 2 months' notice required so earliest you can be expected to leave is 17 May.

I don't think your LL should have too much of a problem with your flexibility requirements. He could rent short term on his return or live with family/friends.

Speak to him and/or the letting agent.



GG

Sisyphus

Thank you for your answers, I'm sending an e-mail to the landlords now. I'm deliberately not communicating through the Agents as they seem to mess it up every time.

franklee

Sisyphus wrote:

c)The Landlord hereby gives notice to the Tenant:- That this Agreement is intended to create an Assured Shorthold Tenancy within Part 1 Chapter II of the Housing Act 1988 and the provisions for the recovery of possession by the Landlord in Section 21 thereof apply accordingly, save where the Landlord serves a notice under paragraph 2 of Schedule 2A to that Act.

That's just telling you about how they can get possession, it's not the actual Section 21 notice that they would need to serve. But often these days agents serve a Section 21 notice at the start of the tenancy, it's not in your agreement, you've already looked but have you checked for any other bits of paper you were given on day one or shortly after the start of the tenancy? Any agent would know they have to serve notice so the fact that they are telling you they expect you to leave on April 17th leads me to think that notice may have been served.

If notice hasn't been served then you automatically go on to a periodic tenancy which will continue until either the landlord/agent serve notice or you do.

So have another look at all the paperwork! If you draw a blank then maybe ask the agent why they don't think you will automatically be able to stay on a periodic tenancy, they'll either tell you they've served notice (so ask them when that was) or they will serve it.

Gorgeous_George wrote:

Yes, I believe 2 months' notice required so earliest you can be expected to leave is 17 May.

True unless there is a "Sword of Damocles" (the serving of a section 21 notice at the start of a tenancy when the landlord doesn't yet know if he actually wants possession). This sounds like a classic case so worth double checking if there is any other paperwork in addition to the AST!

EDIT Add:
Although strictly speaking entering into negotiations about a renewal should invalidate an already served S21 notice but it seems few tenants/agents/landlords realise that. So it's worth doing any negotiations in writing, email is fine.

Sisyphus

That's great - pretty complete. Thanks. No that's all we signed or received. The Agent was trying to scare my wife who is not English. I'm now communicating directly with the landlords on the other side of the World. The conversation is far more civilised and they are now fully aware that their agent has p*ssed us off.