Co-Op Basic Account - They gonna pay a reg bill and let me go overdrawn? Legal? ASAP

YorkshireBoy

TMO wrote: »

Wow CCJ. Getting ahead are we?

Did you see the question mark at the end? It's a possibility I wanted to make you aware of, that's all.

This is not a council tax bill I am talking about.

You haven't said what it's for, but if you owed me money I'd want it back.

I'm not saying they'll take such action this month, or even next month, but somewhere down the line they will.

Anyway it's all academic. It sounds like the Co-op will be closing your account. Hopefully you'll get an 'arrangement to pay' (AP) marker on your credit file, and not a default.

By the way, when you said "any advice would be greatly appreciated", did you actually mean it?

TMO

YorkshireBoy wrote: »

Did you see the question mark at the end? It's a possibility I wanted to make you aware of, that's all.You haven't said what it's for, but if you owed me money I'd want it back.

I'm not saying they'll take such action this month, or even next month, but somewhere down the line they will.

Anyway it's all academic. It sounds like the Co-op will be closing your account. Hopefully you'll get an 'arrangement to pay' (AP) marker on your credit file, and not a default.

By the way, when you said "any advice would be greatly appreciated", did you actually mean it?

Well if Co Op pay them the £190, then I owe them nothing and would owe Co-Op £190 which I think would be a better situation.

Yes, the reason I posted was for advice. I just have a dislike to morons who only post one line saying it's my fault. Like seriously, get a life.

SnowTiger

david39 wrote: »

This is an interesting point.

The concensus is that the bank have to make the payment under their terms of Continuous Payment Authority.

In which case, if the OP doesn't put any more money into the account, at what point does the bank actually refuse to make further payments?

It clearly cannot go on making more and more payments for ever, because the OP, having failed with one, is likely to fail on further ones and could reach a point where he has no ability to repay the bank itself let alone the company trying to collect.

Having already told the OP that it must make the payment and has no ability to stop it, there must be a fall-back position for the bank to actually do so, so why is it able to do so when it (the bank) needs to and not when the customer requests it?

Yes, the advice that CPAs can only be stopped by the organisation which takes the payment is clearly flawed. And, the point you raised has crossed my mind too.

Of course the advice regurgitated here is incorrect. Card issuers can stop CPA payments. I posted this a couple of days ago:

Cancelling or losing your card probably won't stop future payments being taken. One simple solution might be to contact your card issuer and "telling it you have stopped permission for the payments. Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments."

Not my words. Taken from page 15 of the Bank accounts - Know your rights leaflet published by the FSA. Although the leaflet is about bank accounts, this parts appears to cover credit cards too.

Another member here, lisyloo, interpreted that to mean the card user has to have attempted to stop the CPA with whoever it is set up with first.

MonkeyMad

You had been given some advice and since no-one said 'ahh Honey, hugs, it must be hard for you' you started shouting the odds about everyone being a troll for daring to suggest the bank should charge you (at least your behaviour is consistent with previous posts).

Now you seem to think they have actually done you a good turn so perhaps you should expect to pay for this benevolent act. I usually have a lot of time for people in genuine need, but your abrasive manner tends to make me wish we had a banking system that would refuse your debit card at the grocery checkout to see how this would be the banks fault too.

jonesMUFCforever

What you seem not to understand is that a visa debit transaction cannot be stopped.
You are blaming the wrong party here.
You should have asked the company not to debit your account.

Then provided you had given them adequate time to stop the transaction you could claim a chargeback if they had debited you.
(Doing this 24 hours before the transaction is due out is not an adequate timescale).

meer53

TMO wrote: »

Well if Co Op pay them the £190, then I owe them nothing and would owe Co-Op £190 which I think would be a better situation.

Yes, the reason I posted was for advice. I just have a dislike to morons who only post one line saying it's my fault. Like seriously, get a life.

The "morons" have posted that it's your fault because it is your fault. What did you expect people to say ?

pqrdef

TMO wrote: »

Therefore MY bank should REFUSE any payments I have NO funds FOR.

Merchants would be crazy to accept debit cards on that basis. How many of their sales would they ever get paid for?

Banks have to guarantee payments because it's the only way to get merchants to take cards, for the benefit of all customers. People like you trying to play the system just make life more difficult for everybody else.

It's because of people like you that they had to invent authorisation hold, which regularly locks harmless and solvent people out of their money for no good reason. Authorisation hold is necessary so that basic bank accounts with online-only cards can be offered (because of government pressure) to persistent overspenders who previously wouldn't have been able to get a current account at all. The system bends over backwards to help you, and what do you do.

le_loup

TMO wrote: »

Come down and make me "shut my gob". You clown.

Why is it that I expected that sort of response from you?
Bet you get on well with everyone.

inmypocketnottheirs

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

What you seem not to understand is that a visa debit transaction cannot be stopped.
You are blaming the wrong party here.
You should have asked the company not to debit your account.

Then provided you had given them adequate time to stop the transaction you could claim a chargeback if they had debited you.
(Doing this 24 hours before the transaction is due out is not an adequate timescale).

Notwithstanding the attitude of the OP here, the quote above clearly smacks of double standards.

If the OP were to walk into a shop and attempt to pay with their debit card the transaction would be declined, automatically, without any fee or charge made. Yet whenever a CPA debit is made, it's seems entirely discretionary as to whether the payment is honoured or not and if a charge is applied. It is much easier for customers to understand consistency.

The CPA arrangement is a way of the banks shifting the responsibility from the bank to the customer, as opposed to Direct Debits which has a bank backed guarantee. Just like chip and pin, where the onus was shifted from the bank to the customer. And we know how flawed that is.

DuckEggGingham

TMO wrote: »

Wow CCJ. Getting ahead are we? This is not a council tax bill I am talking about. I already have 1 strike, they OD me for around £40 last month, I guess if they pay the £190 tomorrow and the £300 on monday then that is the 3 strikes. If they do that, I hope they will take a payment plan as I cannot pay them that back all at once and I never asked them to OD me to pay that.

You did ask them to pay those bills when you set them up to come out of your account, they are doing their job. Its your fault that its going to mess up your account not the banks. They are just doing what you asked of them. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I say it as someone who also once thought it was everyone else's fault but mine.