Online banking during a Bank Holiday

Legacy_user

Sorry for the long post ...

On Good Friday 6 APR 2012 I used the RBS Online Banking System to schedule a payment from my Current Account to pay funds to my ISA account held at a different bank.

The RBS online payment system displayed a default date of 10 APR 2012 which was the first banking day after the holiday, I accepted this default date and the confirmation screen showed the transaction date of 10 APR 2012 too.

However, when I clicked the confirm button, the transaction was not put into the pending payments list, it was processed immediately via the Faster Payments System and the funds were paid into the destination account with a date of 6 APR 2012 and my current account balance was also reduced with the same date of 6 APR 2012.

I then attempted to schedule another transfer with a date of 10 APR 2012, I overtyped the default date in an attempt to get the system to use the date I wanted, but again the transaction was processed on the 6 APR 2012 even though the screen showed the 10 APR 2012
Therefore, during a Bank Holiday period, the RBS online system does not allow a future dated transaction to be scheduled for the first banking day after a bank holiday.

On this occasion, I already had sufficient funds in my account to cover the transactions on the 6th but if I had been expecting a deposit to my account on say the 9th then it could have caused a problem of insufficient funds due to the fact that the payment was debited on the 6th rather than the displayed date of the 10th

I have been trying to get RBS to admit this is a bug, their help desk chap agreed verbally that it was a bug, but when I EMailed RBS they refuse to admit in writing that there is an issue.

I have pointed out that if I used another bank's online system to schedule a deposit to my current account with a date of 9 APR 2012 then I would expect that transaction to be paid into my account with a date of the 9 APR 2012 and hence using the RBS system on the 6 APR 2012, should allow me to schedule a future dated transaction to be set as pending with a date of 10 APR 2012

Has anyone else experienced a similar problem with other bank's online systems, or can other MSE members confirm that they have been able to schedule a future dated transaction for any date during or following the last Bank Holiday ? (Which Bank ?)

Mikeyorks

In pure scheduling terms - the day after the 5th April is the 10th .... as far as the Bank systems are concerned. So the 6th to 10th (inc) is a single day. Therefore you can't - on one of those days - schedule a future dated payment for what is effectively the same day.

System

Mikeyorks wrote: »

In pure scheduling terms - the day after the 5th April is the 10th .... as far as the Bank systems are concerned. So the 6th to 10th (inc) is a single day. Therefore you can't - on one of those days - schedule a future dated payment for what is effectively the same day.

Yes I know all that, and my statements for both the sending account and the destination account now both show the transaction as being dated 10 APR 2012 but the detail of the transaction shows the "FP" identification code and reference number together with an FP date of 6 APR 2012.

I guess the important condition from the RBS T&Cs is :

... To be sure that a payment can be made, you should ensure that you have sufficient available funds in your account by close of business on the business day before the payment is due to be made. ....

However, the point is that with Faster Payments, a transaction can be processed any day 24 / 7 / 365 and it does impact on your account balance on the date of the FP transaction (even if after the fact, the bank then update your account to show the transaction with the next banking date)

I believe that the online system should allow me to schedule a future dated transaction for the first business day after a bank holiday, at present, during a bank holiday period, the RBS system will only allow me to future date a transaction for the 2nd business day after a bank holiday.

The RBS T&Cs also state:

In General Condition 5.5, we agree to make payments within timescales that relate to when we receive your payment instructions. The time of receipt will be the time we receive your payment instructions rather than the time you send them. The Faster Payments Service permits us to receive and process payment instructions almost immediately.

And the T&Cs go on to state:

It is important that you’re aware of your balance and how available funds are affected by overnight and real time transactions.
The amount of funds you can withdraw at weekends and on bank holidays will take account of Standing Orders, Direct Debits, debit card transactions, forward dated payments and salary payments due on the next business day.

This is exactly what I wanted to do but was prevented from being able to schedule a forward dated payment for the next business day. :)

One other point of note...
Since the first day of the new tax year (6 APR 2012) fell during the bank holiday, and since interest is only calculated on funds deposited from the next available business day, then new funds deposited to an ISA for the 2012/2013 tax year miss out on at least 4 days of interest on the new funds.

Mikeyorks

BAA1 wrote: »

Yes I know all that .

Clearly not :

I believe that the online system should allow me to schedule a future dated transaction for the first business day after a bank holiday

You were already on the first business day after the Bank Holiday. So how can you schedule a future payment for the 10th - when the Bank systems already consider it is the 10th?

The fact that FP marked the payments as the 6th is irrelevant - my Bank would have marked them for the 10th. You're ignoring the fact that FP has been grafted on to systems that know nothing of weekends or Bank Holidays. So whilst FP will send the money the diarising / logging / recording / scheduling systems that it piggy backs onto - are in the dark ages. Which is why I carefully italicised 'scheduling' in my initial reply. Because it's that you were dealing with.

At the end of the day it's better than 4 years ago. You couldn't even move money at weekends / Bank Holidays then.

System

Mikeyorks wrote: »

Clearly not :

I do CLEARLY know how the banking system works, but I think it can be improved - unlike you

Yes FP was grafted onto systems from the dark ages as you put it, but just accepting poor quality systems does not help move things forward, I prefer to challenge my bank to improve things not live with existing systems without question.

I was hoping to get feedback of other members experiences to check if other banks process FP transactions and future dating during the bank holiday in a better way than RBS, I am not really that interested in your [FONT=&quot]particular seemingly defeatist[/FONT] attitude to life.

Mikeyorks

BAA1 wrote: »

I do CLEARLY know how the banking system works,

You wouldn't have posted were that the case.

Your long drawn out question distils to one single and simple element - why you couldn't make a future dated payment. When, in fact, you were already on that future date. So the answer is pretty obvious - other than, not unusually, to you.

Whilst your calendar might have shown the 6th - the one the bank uses had already moved to the 10th. As is self evident from the dates on the payment.

What that has to do with 'defeatism' et al ....... I know not. It's the sort of stupid comment I've come to expect from you.

pqrdef

BAA1 wrote: »

However, the point is that with Faster Payments, a transaction can be processed any day 24 / 7 / 365

The point is, there was no close of business between Thursday and Tuesday. So no, FPs were not fully processed, notwithstanding any indications to the contrary on any websites, because no money was going anywhere.

This also means that you wouldn't incur an overdraft charge if you were straight by the end of Tuesday.

It also means that the money for DDs, SOs and other scheduled payments due on Tuesday 10th was put on hold on Thursday night. People got text alerts on Friday morning rather than Tuesday morning. So, a scheduled payment for Tuesday would have locked up your money anyway - you wouldn't have been able to draw the money out on Sunday and put it back on Monday.

BAA1 wrote: »

and it does impact on your account balance on the date of the FP transaction

Not really. It will affect your "available" balance. But your account balance is reckoned at close of business. Any attempts of any websites to maintain intermediate running totals during the day are not definitive.

BAA1 wrote: »

This is exactly what I wanted to do but was prevented from being able to schedule a forward dated payment for the next business day. :)

The "next business day" is the day that follows the next close of business. During the Easter weekend, the "next business day" was Wednesday.

pqrdef

The same considerations apply every weekend. Easter is just a long weekend. During a normal weekend, the next business day is Tuesday, not Monday, so don't expect to schedule a payment for Monday on Saturday morning. It's bank-Monday already.

YorkshireBoy

BAA1 wrote: »

I was hoping to get feedback of other members experiences to check if other banks process FP transactions and future dating during the bank holiday in a better way than RBS

I have current accounts with 8 banks, including NatWest (part of RBSG), and all of them operate the way you have experienced at weekends and Bank Holidays.

By way of further information, your £10K FP limit (or whatever it is now) cannot be sent each day over the weekend and Bank Holiday because, as has already been established, the next business day starts as soon as the last business day has ended. So in your example, you could only send a total of £10K between Friday morning and Tuesday evening because, again as has already been established, in terms of banking, Tuesday started at 00:01 on Friday morning on the weekend in question.