Tenants threatening to block completion on our property purchase...

bf206

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3891805

Please use this thread above instead!


I wish I wasn't posting on this thread!

We're currently in the process of buying a property, have exchanged contracts and are due to complete next month. On the day of exchange, the vendor's solicitor suddenly insisted on adding a clause to say that if vacant possession (as required by our lender) isn't available on the day of completion, the vendor can give us five days' notice when it is. Our solicitor then insisted on a longstop date, which basically means that if within two weeks of the specified completion date, the tenants haven't left, we can withdraw the contract, with our deposit back. Main reason being our mortgage offer is due to expire then.

It all seemed a bit odd at the time and we did ask, rhetorically, well it's not as if the tenants are just going to stay there. Since the solicitor had protected our deposit in a worst case scenario, we went with it. We knew the place was tenanted - nice professional couple with a baby who we've met a few times on viewings.

The vendor had told us all along that the tenants were on one month's notice. The day after exchange, he provided a copy of the letter of notice requesting the tenants to leave. All seemed fine. Then, alarm bells started to ring last week when the agent spoke to the tenants to arrange for us to go round to measure up. They basically refused and told the agent that they'd now been served a section 21, ie two months' notice, not one, and that they would "try" to be out in that timeframe but, if not, they knew their rights and would wait to be evicted by a court!

The agent, trying to smooth things over, got the tenant to ring me. He seemed polite but was very firm in that they ultimately only had to leave if evicted. I did point out that was completely screwing us over but all he'd say is speak to your lawyer.

There's a history here. It seems the landlord and tenants don't get on and the final straw for them was (unbeknown to us) he rejected their own offer to buy the property to go with us.

The vendor has tried to reassure us, saying he's offered the tenants their deposit back early provided they vacate on time. But when the agent spoke to them yesterday, they're still denying access and maintaining the line of they'll "do their best" to be out within their notice.

We've still got around six weeks until the tenants' notice is up and two months until the longstop date so I guess it's not panic stations - but we're going mad with worry! The agent thinks it'll be fine in the end and is refusing to raise it with the vendor any further because, as far as they're all concerned, the tenants have been given notice and it's only if they don't leave that anything will happen.

I get that, and our solicitor has said much the same, but we've now got six weeks of worrying as to whether the tenants will move. If they don't, I'm just not clear on what happens. Clearly if it gets to the longstop date, we can get our deposit back. But fact is we don't want that to happen - we want to buy this place! Plus we've given notice on the rental property we're in. We may be in a situation where, with two young kids, we've got to suddenly find a new place to rent in about a week.

Do we start packing for a move?! My wife wants to start buying new furniture for the new place but seems pointless now.

Sigh. Any thoughts?! I need to check with our conveyances but I'm not even sure what happens if the longstop date passes, beyond us getting the deposit back. Can we recover all the other fees we spent, or even sue for damages? Reading the contract, I can't see any mention of any of this.

Ulfar

BF206 your solicitor needs to be severely hauled over the coals.

You should never exchange until the tenants have left. I know he has added a long stop clause but this isn't good enough. What happens if they wreck the place when they leave. There should have been the opportunity for you to view the property empty before exchanging to confirm the condition of the property.

In addition to this a S21 does not end a tenancy it signals the landlords intention to regain possession, if the tenant doesn't move out which they may not if they want social housing he has to go to court to get possession and then arrange for bailiffs.
This can take up to 6 months.

The fact that this landlord is incompetent and a liar means that there is no guarantee that he has followed the correct procedures.

The S21 could be invalid for a number of reasons, the main one being he hasn't protected the deposit or he has served it on the wrong date. This will lead to more delays.

If it all falls through I expect your solicitor is expecting to be paid for his work. Once I had made an offer and found out there were tenants I would have put all work on hold until they were out.

franklee

It sounds like the tenants have got this right. The Section 21 notice is the first stage in a landlord getting the property back. Most tenants do leave when the S21 asks but that isn't legally required and they do have the right to stay until a possession order is got and then bailiffs appointed to evict. This could take a few months all in. Also there may be a fault with the S21 notice, was their deposit protected, are the S21 dates right etc. Bear in mind the tenant sounds to have been mucked about too and they also do not want to be homeless. It would seem you're not going to know for sure until they leave but in the meantime it would seem sensible for you to make some contingency plans. Does you current landlord have a new tenant lined up? If not I'd be asking if you can stay on.

As for fees and damages, if they meet the contract then I don't see why you would get those but best to ask your solicitor. I'm quite surprised your solicitor didn't give you a clear idea of what could happen.

bf206

Thanks guys, it just seems a pretty impossible situation. Completely get that the tenants know their rights and that they're in control of the whole situation - and don't they know it!

In fairness to our solicitor (and us!) we did understand the situation. Maybe we've been naive but I guess, having seen the property several times, having met the couple and their baby and they even having talked about what their plans were after moving out, we had no reason to suspect this would happen.

We could have insisted the property was vacant before exchange but since we were always told they'd be given notice on exchange, and it didn't seem likely they would challenge that, we didn't.

Ok, it all seems much clearer with hindsight...

bf206

For what it's worth, I'm certain this isn't a situation where the tenants are ultimately wanting to be placed in social housing.

They're both professionals, pretty well off, own a property which they rent out, and want to buy in the area - hence they tried to buy the place.

It just seems like a landlord/tenant relationship that has gone very sour but we seem to be caught in the crossfire.

Annisele

I suspect the tenants are hoping that if they play hardball long enough, you'll get to your longstop date and pull out, and their LL will eventually end up selling to them.

Or, they might be hoping that somebody will give them a large lump sum to go.

bf206

Anniselle, yes that's definitely occurred to me! When the tenant called me, he was very sure of himself - pointing out that he imagined our mortgage was dependent on vacant possession (which it is) and so we wouldn't be able to complete if they didn't move out...

Part of me thinks that surely the vendor wouldn't be blackmailed into selling to them in this way. But I guess ultimately he'd just take the money from either us or them.

If this looks like being the case, though, what's stopping us from not withdrawing the contract after the longstop date!? It doesn't say at that point the contract's void, just that we have the right to rescind it without penalty and get the deposit back.

Then it would just be a complete stand-off!?

The whole thing is so depressing.

bf206

Fair enough, don't really know how these things work! Will do that then.

Voyager2002

bf206 wrote: »

I wish I wasn't posting on this thread!

We're currently in the process of buying a property, have exchanged contracts and are due to complete next month. On the day of exchange, the vendor's solicitor suddenly insisted on adding a clause to say that if vacant possession (as required by our lender) isn't available on the day of completion, the vendor can give us five days' notice when it is. Our solicitor then insisted on a longstop date, which basically means that if within two weeks of the specified completion date, the tenants haven't left, we can withdraw the contract, with our deposit back. Main reason being our mortgage offer is due to expire then.

It all seemed a bit odd at the time and we did ask, rhetorically, well it's not as if the tenants are just going to stay there. Since the solicitor had protected our deposit in a worst case scenario, we went with it. We knew the place was tenanted - nice professional couple with a baby who we've met a few times on viewings.

The vendor had told us all along that the tenants were on one month's notice. The day after exchange, he provided a copy of the letter of notice requesting the tenants to leave. All seemed fine. Then, alarm bells started to ring last week when the agent spoke to the tenants to arrange for us to go round to measure up. They basically refused and told the agent that they'd now been served a section 21, ie two months' notice, not one, and that they would "try" to be out in that timeframe but, if not, they knew their rights and would wait to be evicted by a court!

The agent, trying to smooth things over, got the tenant to ring me. He seemed polite but was very firm in that they ultimately only had to leave if evicted. I did point out that was completely screwing us over but all he'd say is speak to your lawyer.

There's a history here. It seems the landlord and tenants don't get on and the final straw for them was (unbeknown to us) he rejected their own offer to buy the property to go with us.

The vendor has tried to reassure us, saying he's offered the tenants their deposit back early provided they vacate on time. But when the agent spoke to them yesterday, they're still denying access and maintaining the line of they'll "do their best" to be out within their notice.

We've still got around six weeks until the tenants' notice is up and two months until the longstop date so I guess it's not panic stations - but we're going mad with worry! The agent thinks it'll be fine in the end and is refusing to raise it with the vendor any further because, as far as they're all concerned, the tenants have been given notice and it's only if they don't leave that anything will happen.

I get that, and our solicitor has said much the same, but we've now got six weeks of worrying as to whether the tenants will move. If they don't, I'm just not clear on what happens. Clearly if it gets to the longstop date, we can get our deposit back. But fact is we don't want that to happen - we want to buy this place! Plus we've given notice on the rental property we're in. We may be in a situation where, with two young kids, we've got to suddenly find a new place to rent in about a week.

Do we start packing for a move?! My wife wants to start buying new furniture for the new place but seems pointless now.

Sigh. Any thoughts?! I need to check with our conveyances but I'm not even sure what happens if the longstop date passes, beyond us getting the deposit back. Can we recover all the other fees we spent, or even sue for damages? Reading the contract, I can't see any mention of any of this.

I don't think you should start buying furniture just yet! Rather, you need to have a word with your landlord; explain that there is a problem with your purchase and ask about remaining in your present place a bit longer.

Should the worst happen and the tenants in the place you want to buy block completion (very probable), you should not let the incompetent vendor get away with simply returning your deposit. S/he entered into a legally binding contract but seems unable to deliver on it. So work out a figure for the cost to you of the failed transaction, including wasted time; stress; as well as all the expenses that you have borne. Politely let the vendor know that you will expect this bill to be made if the sale does not complete, and that if necessary you are willing to sue him over this. His solicitor will advise him that he would have to pay, as well as legal costs. The rational thing for the vendor to do would be to give the tenants a lump sum to help with their removal expenses, and to make it large enough for them to move quickly.

bf206

Mods, could you please move over the replies to my original message from this old thread, as has been suggested. Thanks v much.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1806123

bf206

Please use this thread instead...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3891805