DLA and ESA

Folar

Hi, I have just been granted HRM and HRC DLA for an indefinate period (so probably a review when PIP comes in). I am appealing with the DWPs decision to put me into the WRAG of ESA as I should be in the Support Group.

Can I use the DLAs decision as part of my appeal?

Thanks,

Fols x

HB58

Yes, as long as the reasons for being granted DLA tie in with the support group descriptors.

Folar

Yes they do. I can barely walk 20 metres and then in a very bad way and it takes me ages. I'm exhausted afterwards and in considerable pain. I also have incontinence due to nerve damage and no one has any idea if this will ever be 'fixed' or not.

Thank you for your help. Would it be a good idea to copy the DLA award and send it to the ESA?

Sorry for all the questions, any help is appreciated.

Newly_retired

I'm not so sure that this is a good idea.
DLA can be awarded to people who are in work, whereas ESA is work-related, ie. a payment for people too ill or disabled to work, so really there should be no connection.

rogerblack

Newly_retired wrote: »

I'm not so sure that this is a good idea.
DLA can be awarded to people who are in work, whereas ESA is work-related, ie. a payment for people too ill or disabled to work, so really there should be no connection.

DLA can be awarded to people who are in, or out-of work.
Some of the grounds for DLA being granted are grounds for ESA.
If you're found 'virtually unable to walk' - and the DLA medical (if there is one) mentions a reason you can't use a wheelchair, for example, that would normally entitle you to the support group.

In short - it's evidence.
It may be used by either party.
Get a full copy of your ESA/DLA report before highlighting it for another benefit, and read it closely to see if it supports or undermines your claim, then if it supports it, draw attention to specific passages - perhaps quoting them - in a covering letter.

formaldehyde_perfume

It depends. I got 0 points at my first ESA medical and my DLA award (along with a copy of my GP report from the DLA application, dated just two weeks before my ESA medical) was enough to get my award changed to the support group.

If the evidence related to your DLA claim is different to what has been reported by the ESA medical then it will add weight to your appeal, if it is similar then it may go the other way as they can argue it further proves the ESA medical was correct.

DLA and ESA are different benefits for different reasons, but some of the descriptors are similar and it can be argued that the walking descriptor for HRM DLA is stricter than for ESA.

Folar

Thanks for the replies. I have been awarded highest rate care and highest rate mobility. According to the Award letter this was done based on my Doctors report, test results, medication, treatment and symptoms. I am going to see my doctor in 10 days time so I will write and ask if I can have a copy of the report he sent. I don't know what test results they are referring to as I've had so many and I don't want o put something wrong in so maybe best to leave that out? Dr was also writing me a letter of support to send to the ESA but I've not had this yet.

Oh and yes I know the difference between DLA and ESA, but as you say some of the descriptors (especially mobilization) are very similar, hence why I was wondering if I could use my DLA information as evidence.

fogartyblue.

formaldehyde_perfume wrote: »

it can be argued that the walking descriptor for HRM DLA is stricter than for ESA.

So are you suggesting that in being granted HRM because a person is unable or virtually unable to walk...........

is a good enough argument to get the max points for mobility under ESA?

If so, could you point me in the direction of where I might find that info please.

As ESA was refused at assessment stage with 0 points and at the Tribunal stage likewise. Despite the claimant being in receipt of DLA - MRC/HRM and that this was pointed out at both stages.

The argument against was that the two benefits are totally different and are NOT compatible with each other.

Folar

I don't know who you are referring to Fogertyblue, but I have been awarded HRC and HRM for an indefinite period. I only wanted to know if I could add this as part of my evidence for my ESA Claim. I scored well over the 15 points initially and was put into the WRAG, I am appealing to go in the Support Group.

I am fully aware of the differences in consideration of awarding the separate benefits.

rogerblack

fogartyblue. wrote: »

So are you suggesting that in being granted HRM because a person is unable or virtually unable to walk...........

is a good enough argument to get the max points for mobility under ESA?

If so, could you point me in the direction of where I might find that info please.

The difference is basically the use of a wheelchair, and a slightly longer distance limit.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/m-06-11.pdf - the mobilisation descriptors (for 15 points). (or the support group descriptor, which is the same)

1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid can reasonably be used.
1
(a)
Cannot either: (i) mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion; or (ii) repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch61.pdf - DLA decision-makers guide.

DLA is different though.

61323
In the absence of any significant indications as to the other three factors, manner, speed and time, (DMG 61276 refers), if a claimant is unable to cover more than 25 to 30 metres without suffering severe discomfort, his walking ability is not ‘appreciable’ or ‘significant’; while if the distance is more than 80 or 100 metres, he is unlikely to count as ‘virtually unable to walk’.

For DLA, various case-law exists that mentions around 30 yards as 'clearly being entitled to HRM'.
For ESA, this is somewhat longer at 50 yards.
The major difference is that ESA can take into account the claimants ability to use a wheelchair.

Now, the tricky part.
You've been to tribunal, and the tribunal has found against you.
If it is within one month, you can request a statement of reasons.
Now, you need to scrutinise this (or ideally someone skilled in the art), and find out if they gave adequate reasons.

For example, if they simply ignored the issues you raised of DLA HRM, that may be cause to appeal this decision.
If they gave reasons as to why they believe the DLA evidence does not apply - and they are not clearly wrong to the point of irrationality, or if they did not believe your testimony - and explained why - you are unlikely to be able to appeal.

You can only appeal (generally) if they have made an error of law in not considering something that they should have considered, or their decision is so irrational as to be clearly wrong to anyone looking at the same facts.

You cannot appeal because they did not believe you.

Folar

But I've not been to Tribunal?????

I don't know why this keeps getting assumed. I am currently appealing the initial decision to put me in WRAG and not the Support Group. I am just trying to find out what I can use as evidence to send to the DWP to hopefully reconsider my ESA. As I have just been awarded HRM and HRC I wanted to know if I could use this towards my evidence.