Child Support & Conact...

kevin137

Your right mark it is, and it very family orientated, even after the family unit breaks down, it is still about "family".

Culturally very different i agree, so let me ask you this, with the cost to supporting the current system in the UK and the included ETC CTC etc as a result of parents NOT working, or only choosing pt time work etc, would it not be financially beneficial to the country for the government to try and replicate the system they have here for breaking down families...?

It may cost some money to implement, but the savings long term to the government and the welfare bill is tremendous...!

I know it would be a long time coming, and the benefit system is seriously flawed as it currently stands, but it is possible surely....

shell_542

clearingout wrote: »

Kevin - I disagree. I think that the psychology of separation and divorce that is used in our courts suggests that stability is what is important to children. And stability is usually defined as a child living full-time with the parent who has given the most care - with younger children, this is likely the mother as whether you like it or not, it is usually mum who is working part-time, is a stay at home mum etc. The courts do award residence to fathers who have been stay at home dads in the interests of preserving this stability.

Difference being, in couples, the "parent who has given the most care" can change at the drop of a hat with no regard for how it is going to affect the child psychologically. If a couple have the opportunity arise where mum suddenly has the ability to become the main breadwinner in the family, the couple would consider switching the roles over with less concern.

Because children are adaptable and unfortunately, adults sometimes have to do things which may not always be seen as in the "children's best interests" but in the "families best interests".

Some of the time the "child's best interests" is a cover for "my (mother or father's) best interests"

Valli

The FIRST thing that needs to happen IMO would be an attitude change in that it would be deemed socially unacceptable to argue about the kids in front of the kids; unacceptable to contact the kids school and complain about the other parent, or claim that the other parent cannot have access to the child; unacceptable for other family members, friends etc to take sides and bad-mouth the other parent; unacceptable to deny agreed contact/access arrangement; unacceptable to change contact visits at the drop of a hat; to turn up late. In other words stop using the children as weapons.
Then we might get somewhere.

Marisco

Valli wrote: »

The FIRST thing that needs to happen IMO would be an attitude change in that it would be deemed socially unacceptable to argue about the kids in front of the kids; unacceptable to contact the kids school and complain about the other parent, or claim that the other parent cannot have access to the child; unacceptable for other family members, friends etc to take sides and bad-mouth the other parent; unacceptable to deny agreed contact/access arrangement; unacceptable to change contact visits at the drop of a hat; to turn up late. In other words stop using the children as weapons.
Then we might get somewhere.

I agree, all that should happen, but it never will as it is the only way a bitter ex has any control over the NRP!! Some (note some!!) really enjoy making NRP's jump through hoops to see their kids, and whilst the access depends on the "goodwill" of the PWC, and lack of stiff penalties for contact blocking, then nothing will change!

kevin137

Marisco wrote: »

I agree, all that should happen, but it never will as it is the only way a bitter ex has any control over the NRP!! Some (note some!!) really enjoy making NRP's jump through hoops to see their kids, and whilst the access depends on the "goodwill" of the PWC, and lack of stiff penalties for contact blocking, then nothing will change!

So how is it possible for that to happen here in Norway even though parents can remain bitter, there are some that are just as bad, but the shared custody still happens, people will always argue, doesn't matter where or when you split there will always be bad feelings....

And i wasn't having a dig clearingout, i was suggesting that if peoples attitudes changed, then the system would change and as such so would the presumption that BOTH parents would have 50/50 care from the start...!

The biggest problem i see is the financial implications for the PWC, as they would have to "share" the ability to claim wtc, ctc & cb for it to work, or one parent would always be the main carer, and as such have the financial benefits...

And before you say that it is not about money, it is nearly always about money...! Most PWC would be crucified if they only got half the benefits they get currently and would have to work more... Is that MORE fair to the child...? That he gets more quality time with both parents, and sees both working..???

Personally i think it brings a better upbringing into a childs life and doesn't become normal to stay at home / work part time while a single parent...

I understand there are many issues in what i am suggesting, and it would probably cause uproar if ever suggested by an MP, but that would just prove my point... It is all about money...

SingleSue

I have tried and tried to get my ex husband to see our children more often but unfortunately, he prefers to only see them for a couple of hours a year (quite literally a couple of hours!)

Yet, he often contacts a media source and makes it sound like I took the children away from him when it was he who moved 500 miles away (to avoid having the children every other weekend, yes he actually said that to me)...we still live in the marital home.

I know there are NRP fighting to see their children but I would love for there to be a way for a child to enforce their rights to see their absent parent as I believe it is important for a young person to know their heritage and to have a healthy relationship with both parents...but if the absent parent is not willing, then what can you do?

shegirl

kevin137 wrote: »

So how is it possible for that to happen here in Norway even though parents can remain bitter, there are some that are just as bad, but the shared custody still happens, people will always argue, doesn't matter where or when you split there will always be bad feelings....

And i wasn't having a dig clearingout, i was suggesting that if peoples attitudes changed, then the system would change and as such so would the presumption that BOTH parents would have 50/50 care from the start...!

The biggest problem i see is the financial implications for the PWC, as they would have to "share" the ability to claim wtc, ctc & cb for it to work, or one parent would always be the main carer, and as such have the financial benefits...

And before you say that it is not about money, it is nearly always about money...! Most PWC would be crucified if they only got half the benefits they get currently and would have to work more... Is that MORE fair to the child...? That he gets more quality time with both parents, and sees both working..???

Personally i think it brings a better upbringing into a childs life and doesn't become normal to stay at home / work part time while a single parent...

I understand there are many issues in what i am suggesting, and it would probably cause uproar if ever suggested by an MP, but that would just prove my point... It is all about money...

I think it could be quite complex though with regard to benefits.Both sets of parents may need different childcare arrangements aswell among other things.So for that to be the norm over here I reckon could take some work.

There's also a question over whether alternating weeks in different households would be more beneficial than one main home and spending weekends and holidays at another.

It's lovely that they manage so well over there,it really is,and for those who would bother and would overcome any isssues if possible,if it would be the best for their child it would be great.I'm just wondering how complex something like that could become over here,particularly given the benefits system we have.

Mark148

I believe that the Benefit System that is operated in the UK was borne out of necessity but has grown into a beast that is so complex and open to abuse that it is now out of managerial control.

The complete system continually goes through change after change after change and yet it is always trying to catch up and implement these amendments. The net result of these continual changes is confusion, over expenditure, low moral, inefficient workforce training and Gross Negligence.

This system has now created a culture within the UK populace that has had a severely detrimental impact on our way of life by fuelling negative characteristics within people such as greed etc.

The only way we as a Nation will ever get back to a decent society as demonstrated by others, Norway etc is to change our systems (mainly Benefits) which will then assist in create the conditions for a better family orientated life.

kevin137

Mark148 wrote: »

The only way we as a Nation will ever get back to a decent society as demonstrated by others, Norway etc is to change our systems (mainly Benefits) which will then assist in create the conditions for a better family orientated life.

I agree...

An example of how it works here...

You own a car? That is classed as a luxury and seen as savings, you are not eligible for benefits...! You sell the car, live on the money, when the money is gone, you are eligible for claiming, but then you have to walk and use public transport..!

Does this work? Not to sure, as the car has to be above a certain value, but it makes so much sense to me.

The other thing that i like about there benefit system, is i moved in with my g/f and if she was on benefits i would not be classed as an earner in her life, so if she was claiming housing benefit, my income would not be assumed to pay for it, it would only be assumed to pay for half of it and she could still claim half. Her income would be hers.

I think that there system is flawed in some ways, but on the whole it is 50 times better than anything i have ever seen, and people have that attitude that makes it work, you are not seen as clever for wangling a day off, you are seen as an !!!!!! for doing it, so people don't..! Sick is easy to abuse here, you get 20 days, for each child in your household, for each parent living there, yet people don't abuse them. In the UK they would be taken before holiday...

So i believe attitude is the key here, but a good attitude starts with the Government, and them being tough and actually doing something about the system that breeds the crap that society is...!

Ellejmorgan

so what if the father is unpredicatable or a danger to the kids, should we still allow shared care..??

What about the cheap childcare in scandinavian countries isn't it appox £300 pm for a full time childcare place..doesn't that make it easier to provide for children than over here..