Child Support & Conact...

kevin137

I have been wondering for a while, and this is not meant to be something to cause an argument, but think people views would be good...

I live in Norway, and things are VERY VERY DIFFERENT here. If a relationship ends, then Child Support is very unusual, so why is that...?

Well it starts with the fact that shared care IS normal, 50/50 care of the child, a week at each parents...

WHY in this day and age, can this not be normal in the UK, it works very well here, and people are less argumentative and do more to help each other out, without interference from useless government agencies...

If this was a possibility in the UK how many of you, as parents would think this is a good idea...?

There would be issues that go with that there, primarily the WTC, CTC & CB are a few i can think of, but then that is not an issue here, as you sign a contract for shared care, and any eligibility is split. So you would get half of all your entitlements, and the ex would get the same entitlement, according to there income....

Primarily, this will reduce the welfare costs in a huge way, as not everyone would be entitled, it would also build relationships between parents that have been cut off, and it is far better for the children...

Please give your views...

clearingout

I think it depends very much on the age of the children, what has been 'given up' to parent, where the children's sense of security lies, whether or not it is financially viable for both parents to be able to keep a roof over their heads and ultimately it depends on whether parents are able to co-operate. I don't believe I should have ever had to hand over a new born baby to my ex on a week-on, week-off basis and there is nothing you can do to persaude me that such a routine would have been in a baby's best interests.

The problem with forums like this, Kevin, is that you only ever 'speak' with people who are having problems. As a result, it can feel like the whole world is struggling post-separation when it isn't actually the case. I believe it's less than 10% of cases that end up in court with would suggest that by far the majority of people are able to sort out their families to a level of mutual satisfaction without any kind of intervention.

The CSA are a different kettle of fish and it is our culture of negativity towards single parenting (or better said 'single mums') that has caused their involvement in a large proportion of cases. Simply put, we seem to believe that we can't manage our finances without their support. I would welcome an alternative option but for me, I'm not sure there is one as my ex simply won't pay and as he's self employed, there is nothing else to be done but use the CSA to collect (not that they manage it!). I like the CSA because the alternative is that it would be me doing the chasing, with a solicitor and the courts and all that is involved in that. Frankly, life is too short. That I have been able to hand that to someone else to deal with is a huge weight off my shoulders: I know the CSA is imperfect but it is better than nothing, in my view.

Marisco

The Scandinavians seem to do a lot of things better than we do in the UK!! Sounds an ideal situation Kev, but what happens if there is conflict between the parents? The problem is with the CSA is they go after the "easy" cases!! When my oh split with his ex, everything was sort of ok, but greed reared up it's head, and when the CSA got involved, everything went to hell!! He was compliant, always answering letters almost by return of post and they still hounded him, wouldn't listen, caused arrears to accumulate, it was a nightmare!!! Because of them, his kids were nearly homeless as were we!!

My oh would have loved shared care, but he was lucky, and depending on the biatch's mood, to see them at all!! It was only his persistence that paid off, but it took an awful toll on us. On a bright note, kids grow up, so all those going through it now, there is an end, even if it doesn't seem like it!! And the relief is indescribable!!!

shell_542

The mindset in the UK is "mum is caregiver, dad goes out to work and provides financially for the family" and this doesn't end after a separation. This is the mindset of the public (including many mothers AND fathers) and of the officials in the family courts. It is slowly changing.



Although, I personally don't think week about is always best or even possible. How do they work that with young children and childcare in Norway Kevin? Is isn't always feasible that a parent can organise childcare for children every other week ... plus it would be very expensive. It's ok once they are older and able to get themselves home and fend for themselves until a parent finishes work, but not for little ones.

kevin137

It seems to be that everyone i know over here, (and there children are 4+) they ALL share care, and common expenses are shared, so nursery, after school care etc is split.

There are very few arguments over children here, it is deemed best for the children from the start for shared care.

The other difference is that mediation works, and stupid things like, my g/f wanted to take the children to England on a holiday, and get there passports, and the ex had to sign the passport applications and give written approval for the children to leave, and this is normal, but with no problems.

I think it is more the mindset of the people in the UK that cause most of the problems when it comes to spitting rather than the involvement of government agencies. If you actually sat down and thought about things, it is all possible in the UK as well, but for greed and the need to have control.

clearingout

Don't the Scandanavians have more family-friendly working practices anyway? higher standards of living with a general expectation that both parents work? what about nursery care - what is available and at what cost (how affordable is it?).

I take exception to the suggestion that problems here are caused by 'greed'. That's not the case. I worked hard to overcome my issues with my ex to have a genuine shared care arrangement with him but if he wasn't going to contribute (which he wasn't), it simply wasn't financially viable for me. There are lots of reasons for that but mainly comes down to the area we lived in and the cost of housing there, my chosen career in the voluntary sector which wasn't particularly well paid, and the ex's failure to recognise that sharing means exactly that - sharing everything to do with the children. As it is, he just wanted to cherry pick the good times and leave the rest to me.

Most people in the UK to manage their arrangements post-separation without the intervention of any agencies. Our experiences as people who post in forums like this make it feel like everyone has problems - you wouldn't be posting here if you'd had an easy time of it and were happy with how it had worked out!

kevin137

That is the point though i think, it is mainly the attitude in the Uk that sucks, the expectancy that there will be a primary care giver and not 2 primary care givers, which is far better for ALL concerned.

Nursery care costs about the same as the Uk in relation to income, and most schools have after school care for working parents, so up to middle school they are cared for pretty well, but then like my g/f's daughter at 10 she has a key, comes home alone, texts to say she is there and is fine to be left. She can come here to us, or to her dads, it makes no difference.

I was not suggesting that you where greedy, but look at the financial implications to many many PWC both in the real world and on here. Shared care is not financially viable for probably most of them, you would lose far to much in the way of financial support, and that is passed on to the tax payers. Surely if able to work and shared care is a possibility then that is preferential for the children...?

Everybody has choices in there life, and it seems that most mothers on splitting choose to feel that the father is not capable of caring for a child, and this is backed up both by mediation and by the courts.

By this i mean, take a 5 year old, a single child, lived with both parents for his life so far, and the parents split, the relationship goes south on splitting, and mediation is called for, what is the likelihood that shared care would be granted immediately...? 1% maybe...? or less. Certainly not more....!!! Here in most scandinavian countries, 50% is the norm...! So is it not society and the system that is making it very biased towards mothers...? And i am not digging at mothers, but at the system...!!!

Valli

I know of one couple with two kids who split and subsequently divorced and it went like this...

mum decided that their relationship was no longer working/giving her what she wanted and she felt it was wrong.
She decided, as she had been the one to initiate the split, to leave the marital home; she found an ex council house which she bought. As I understand it she didn't ask for anything from the house/settlement as it had been her decision to go. The parents decided to try shared care. This worked. Kids main residence remained their dad's (the former marital home) This meant they would stay at their primary school (they were at the top end) moreover they would then go to the same comprehensive as their mates. Mum subsequently found a new partner, moved him in, they married and now have a child of their own'; parents continue to share care of the kids; they spend blocks of days with either mum & partner or dad. Both natural parents attend parents evenings etc.
I believe their was anger/fallout at the start but both parents have endeavoured to share care of their children and co-operate as far as they can.

This, sadly, is very unusual.

On my own part I have made sterling efforts to get on a friendly footing with my ex but it has taken a long time. Even during mediation my ex was aggressive and confrontational. Now we can have a civil conversation. But, as I said, effort has had to be made!

It will need a massive change in attititude to bring this about - so often, unfortunately, children are 'used' during disputes - e.g. no money = you're not seeing the kids. Parents (and other family members) squabbling and name-calling in front of the kids - this all has to change. But HOW?

clearingout

Kevin - I disagree. I think that the psychology of separation and divorce that is used in our courts suggests that stability is what is important to children. And stability is usually defined as a child living full-time with the parent who has given the most care - with younger children, this is likely the mother as whether you like it or not, it is usually mum who is working part-time, is a stay at home mum etc. The courts do award residence to fathers who have been stay at home dads in the interests of preserving this stability.

Not every person is suited to the to-ing and fro-ing that goes on with shared care. And certainly, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I don't think it acceptable that a new born baby should have gone between me and his father on a week on/week off basis or any other kind of shared care for that matter. Said child had a right to be breast fed if nothing else.

My ex is as capable as I am of looking after our children when his head is in the right place, I don't deny that. And I would be happy to promote a culture of 50/50 where both parties are willing to talk and compromise and understand their wider responsibilities to the children and ultimately to each other if such an arrangement is to work. It didn't work for me, my ex and our children that's for sure!

kevin137

Well it starts small. People have to be big enough to say this is in the best interest of the kids...

With that, the norm becomes shared care, and with that the mediation and courts move towards what is the norm, it is a society stigma...

Take food for example... We would never consider eating dog, it would be frowned upon, but in chine it is the norm.. Why because it is acceptable in there society...

This is no different, different places have different outlooks, but it is NOT always for the best...

I would of loved to of had it that way, and i did all sorts with my son, cubs, karate, swimming, all my things with my son, even if not my time, so on a tuesday i would take him from his home at 6pm, karate lesson from 6:30 to 7:30pm then take him straight home, is this access, i would;t of classed it as that, and i offered to collect from school etc, but was turned down, as this would portray me a s a better father and having more contact and leading to shared care. And this was something that was desperately avoided by my ex....

The long and short of it was i developed a relationship with my son, and we are better for it...

Which reminds me, i have to go to the airport to pick him up, he is flying into Norway to see me for a week... He is a little upset the local ski slope has closed.. But i have a surprise for him as we are going away for a few days to a different resort and he don't know...

Mark148

Kevin,

I have been to Norway many times and I believe it is a beautiful country both in natural beauty and culturally. Our cultures are so diverse with ours being of a more 'rat race' and the Norwegians of a more family and friendly focused.

What also impressed me was that the schools system and lesson timetable was exactly the same across the whole of the Country so that a year 5 child in Oslo and a year 5 child in Stravangar for example would both be studying the same lesson at the same time. This system is designed to facilitate 'shared care' and assist in normal family moves.