Solar PV - Elec. Company won't pay Export

WoodyAllenJesus

Hi All,
We had solar PV panels installed in September 2011. After the huge initial outlay we are yet to receive ANY money for the electricity we have generated. I am not too concerned with this as I believe we take a reading on 31st March and they will pay us for everything generated so far so we will wait and see.

The problem really is that whilst they seem to be ok with paying us the FIT tariff (though we shall see!) they are telling us they can't pay us the Export money (3p per unit?). Apologies if I am using the wrong terminology by the way.

They tell us we are 'off the grid' and it seems to be too complicated to sort it all out. I can't understand this as surely we must be 'on the grid' to be providing electricity to the grid in the first place so I think they are just hoping we'll go away.

We are a private house on a military estate where our electric is provided by the electric company through the MOD so it does get a bit complicated as we never had an NMAP(?) number (there was just one number for the whole garrison). We do seem to have set a bit of a precedent.

I feel aggrieved that we are not getting everything back that we should be as was calculated before the install. I know it's small potatoes compared to the FIT but it's the principle of the thing!

We've badgered the electricity company but just hit a brick wall and we don't know where to go from here really. Any ideas or has anyone else had a similar thing and how did you resolve it?

Many thanks!

Martyn1981

Morning WAJ, that's an interesting question, got my brain cells spinning!

Looking at it from two directions, if the electricity company supplies the MOD on mass, then your export will reduce the amount the MOD purchases for the estate. The company gets nothing back (just lower sales), but the MOD gets some free leccy to sell to others on the estate, so the MOD benefits, but the logistic nightmare or working out how much, and from what budget to pay - probably cost more than you are owed?

If the company is billing each property separately, then presumably they are getting some energy from you, to re-sell (to your neighbours) themselves, and should pay you the export element?

However, given your unusual circumstances, there could be all sorts of legal ramifications, over exactly who is getting the exported units, who pays for them, who benefits, supply contracts/rights with the MOD, etc etc.

Sorry I can't really help, but I am interested, if that's of some consolation.

Edit: The fact that you don't have your own MPAN is probably crucial, suggesting to me that legally you are a customer of the MOD, perhaps? Does that mean that your meter belongs to the MOD / is administered and monitored by the MOD as sub-contractors for the energy company? Boy, this gets complex fast, I see what you mean!

Mart.

EricMears

WoodyAllenJesus wrote: »

They tell us we are 'off the grid' and it seems to be too complicated to sort it all out. I can't understand this as surely we must be 'on the grid' to be providing electricity to the grid in the first place so I think they are just hoping we'll go away.

I'd be inclined to ask them to explain why they've charged you for electricity you've used in the past when they don't seem to have any way of delivering it to you ! You could be in line for a refund of thousands

It's nonsense of course. You have a meter and have received electricity from them. Your neighbours will also have meters and when you're exporting but they're importing, your neigbours will be paying your provider for the electricity that you've generated. It might get slightly more complicated if you were the only customer in your road of that particular REC but that would be an equally possible scenario in a conventional road where everyone else had stayed with (say) London Electricity Board but you'd switched to Scottish power and you'll never have heard of similar refusals in that sort of case.

If indeed the lack of an MPAN means that you're an MOD 'customer' but being metered by an 'agent' it really doesn't alter the fact that your surplus is going somewhere

WoodyAllenJesus

Indeed. I am guessing that the MoD is actually the one benefitting from our export, rather than SSE.

Our other issue is that the meter is now running backwards and presumably we would not get the benefit of that (I have yet to see how they will deal with that), but they can't have their cake and eat it surely? I.e. either we should get paid for the export or we get the 'benefit' of the backwards meter?

WoodyAllenJesus

We are invoiced for electric by the MoD so yes we are their customers but they would need to liaise with SSE to get us an MPAM number and so far neither party seems to have come up with a solution.

Hobbo2006

You might be better off not pursuing this then as currently you're "getting paid" for 100% of your export via the backward spinning meter.

If you battle to get paid the export money (ours is projected at £46.50 based on 3000kWh's generated) then SSE might start asking questions....

You could find that you spend ages getting what is rightfully yours and actually end up out of pocket!

Martyn1981

As I said before, really fascinating situation.

To run some numbers, let's go big and assume you've got a very big, and very ideal install, maybe 4,000 units pa, so estimated export = 2,000 * 3.2p (just about) = £64

Sizeable to you, and will grow each year, but tiny to the MOD who may argue that they'd have to carry out extra admin work. They may also point out that (presumably) they have no legal commitment (contract) with you to pay for exported units, even if they do make money selling them to your neighbours.

Worth exploring further, but at this stage I suspect that there will be little precedent for you to get very far. You may have to take this one on the chin for now?

Sorry if this is beginning to sound a little 'legal', I have no legal experience whatsoever, just thinking out loud.

Regarding backwards meter, quick plug for a new thread (still under construction) that has some guidance, though your circumstances are certainly not 'normal';

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3872445

best of luck.

Mart.

EricMears

WoodyAllenJesus wrote: »

We are invoiced for electric by the MoD so yes we are their customers but they would need to liaise with SSE to get us an MPAM number and so far neither party seems to have come up with a solution.

Even better !

A brief letter to your supplier (whoever they are, I mean the people who have sent you bills in the past) is called for. Tell them you suspect a faulty meter, (DON'T say why) and suggest that they need to have an MPAN before the local distribution company can authorise that.

Then sit back and wait ( and wait . . . ) whilst enjoying your nett metering which is a far better deal than anything to which you're really entitled.

tr8

If your meter is going backwards during the generation time, say nothing. They will change the meter as you are currently getting 11p-12p via backward rather than 3p.

WoodyAllenJesus

Well one of the [STRIKE]few[/STRIKE] joys of having MoD utilities is that electricity is only 6p a unit anyway, but I get your point!

Having spoken to my husband tonight he apparently asked MoD for a new meter just prior to us getting PV (because the current one is only 80 Amps or something). They said we didn't need a new meter and if we wanted one it would cost £750 so he told them to get stuffed.

So as far as I'm concerned we've tried everything and we'll just have to see how they bill us etc (considering we are away for 2 months this summer there's a strong possibility our reading might be lower for that quarter than it was for the previous...)

Martyn1981

WoodyAllenJesus wrote: »

Well one of the [STRIKE]few[/STRIKE] joys of having MoD utilities is that electricity is only 6p a unit anyway, but I get your point!

Hello again WAJ. Been thinking about your situation, well over-thinking, but that's what I tend to do!

At 6p, somebody must be subsidising the cost of electricity, or at the very least, the energy company is supplying it at cost. Your generation will always be consumed on the estate, so the amount of electricity that the MOD buy, then subsidise, or the electricity supplier sells at cost or a loss, will be reduced. Reduced by whatever your generation is.

Presumably, whoever is taking the hit (Company, MOD, Government) would actually benefit from supplying / buying less units. If it's being sold at cost, then that's probably a pain in the proverbial too.

Long story short (too late!), there's a good chance that the MOD won't care about your meter going backwards, and even if they do, the amount of admin for one property wouldn't be worth the hassle, so short of a jobsworth, you might go 'officially' unnoticed.

Hopefully you'll remain on 'net metering' and do better than all the rest of us. Regarding quarterly readings, ideally you want the May, June and July months split across 2 separate quarters, but doubt there's much you can do about that.

Have fun in the sun. Mart.