invalid section 21?

skint-student-nurse

I have a form N5B - claim for possession of property (accelerated procedure).

under section 10 of the form, they have written about the arrears, which as I previously said, I am in arrears but the amount they have written is wrong but at least £500.

jjlandlord

skint-student-nurse wrote: »

I have a form N5B - claim for possession of property (accelerated procedure).

under section 10 of the form, they have written about the arrears, which as I previously said, I am in arrears but the amount they have written is wrong but at least £500.

N5B form from HM court service: http://hmctsformfinder.direct.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n5b-eng.pdf

No section 10. No mention of rent arrears...

pinkshoes

In brief, you're hoping that because the tenancy agreement mentions TWO dates, the earlier date would mean that the S21 was issued too late, thus they should have to issue another S21, buying you another 2 months to find somewhere else to live?

Why don't you just speak to the LL, pay the arrears, and tell him that the place you'd lined up has fallen through, so can you have a bit more time?

skint-student-nurse

The N5B I have has 12 sections,section 13 is a statement of truth. The section 10 is for 'any further information' and that is where they have written about my arrears. The form I have is not a printed out one as in the link which is the August 2011 version, its from the court and the information has been written in, not typed but the form is the April 2010 version as stated on the bottom of the form, thats why they are different

skint-student-nurse

pinkshoes wrote: »

In brief, you're hoping that because the tenancy agreement mentions TWO dates, the earlier date would mean that the S21 was issued too late, thus they should have to issue another S21, buying you another 2 months to find somewhere else to live?

Why don't you just speak to the LL, pay the arrears, and tell him that the place you'd lined up has fallen through, so can you have a bit more time?

Exactly! I have written to the landlord to come to a private arrangement and had no reply,just court papers.

jjlandlord

pinkshoes wrote: »

In brief, you're hoping that because the tenancy agreement mentions TWO dates

The tenancy agreement does not mention 2 dates...

skint-student-nurse wrote: »

The N5B I have has 12 sections,section 13 is a statement of truth. The section 10 is for 'any further information' and that is where they have written about my arrears.

If that's indeed the case, the form still does not mention rent arrears: the landlord filled in irrelevant information that will be ignored.

The court will only decide whether to grant a possession order based on the validity of the s.21 notice.

Assuming deposit was protected when it was issued:
It does seem to give at least 2 month notice. IMHO the fact that it states that possession is required on 22nd March does not necessarily invalidate it.
But it's not impossible that the court will decide that it is invalid because it's not the typical advised form.

franklee

jjlandlord wrote: »

IMHO the fact that it states that possession is required on 22nd March does not necessarily invalidate it.
But it's not impossible that the court will decide that it is invalid because it's not the typical advised form.

Surely as the tenancy runs from from 23/09/11 to and including 22/03/12 then the tenant is entitled to possession for all of the 22nd. Therefore a S21 asking for possession on 22nd is too soon, it should ask for possession after 22nd.

skint-student-nurse, can you double check the wording around the date on the S21 and post it here. Does it say possession is required on 22/03/12 or after 22/03/12? It may be one little word but it matters

jjlandlord

franklee wrote: »

Surely as the tenancy runs from from 23/09/11 to and including 22/03/12 then the tenant is entitled to possession for all of the 22nd. Therefore a S21 asking for possession on 22nd is too soon, it should ask for possession after 22nd.

skint-student-nurse, can you double check the wording around the date on the S21 and post it here. Does it say possession is required on 22/03/12 or after 22/03/12? It may be one little word but it matters

'after' is not required according to s.21(1)(b), which just requires that 2 month notice be given to allow a court to make a possession order "on or after the coming to an end of the AST".
I do agree that the wording and date will probably cause trouble, especially that there won't be a hearing, but IMHO the notice is not fatally flawed in principle.

then the tenant is entitled to possession for all of the 22nd

Yes, but not the 23rd, so possession should still be given on the 22nd. (Apologies for this extremely pedantic remark )

franklee

jjlandlord wrote: »

'after' is not required according to s.21(1)(b), which just requires that 2 month notice be given to allow a court to make a possession order "on or after the coming to an end of the AST".
I do agree that the wording and date will probably cause trouble, especially that there won't be a hearing, but IMHO the notice is not fatally flawed in principle.

Yes, but not the 23rd, so possession should still be given on the 22nd. (Apologies for this extremely pedantic remark )

If the tenant doesn't want a periodic tenancy to arise then they volunteer to give up possession before the end of the day on the 22nd. However that doesn't give the landlord's notice a right to demand possession on 22nd as with no other specification the fixed term runs for the whole of the 22nd. It is pedantic but then so are the courts when they look at these notices and a landlord asking for possession on 22nd is asking for it on a day for which the fixed term is still running. He may get away with that but I wouldn't like to bank on it.

jjlandlord

franklee wrote: »

However that doesn't give the landlord's notice a right to demand possession on 22nd as with no other specification the fixed term runs for the whole of the 22nd.

I was just quoting section 21.