URGENT PLEASE...old parking ticket and bailiffs

sandraroffey

just had a frantic phone call from my daughter in law and she doesnt know what to do.

she forgot to pay a parking ticket some time ago, and while she was in hospital recently following a car accident, she got the first letter from a bailiff, which she forgot about because she was so poorly.

on monday gone, when the bailiffs first turned up, she phone ashford council and paid the original fine (£80 ) over the phone and they accepted the payment.

she thought it was sorted until at 8am this morning the bailiff turned up again, wanting £300 odd pounds!!! she told him she had paid it and downloaded the receipt from online to show him, and he told her that he had told the council that they couldnt accept this payment, so they have now refunded the money back to her bank.

the bailiff is coming back at 6pm today, he says, to either be paid or execute his warrant to take her stuff.

she hasnt let him in at all. but what can she do now??

is the council allowed to take and accept her payment, then say, no, we are giving it back to you???? what can she say to the bailiff to make him go away.

urgent advice needed here please.

HappyMJ

Don't say anything to the bailiff. Ignore the bailiff and the debt will eventually return to the council. Does the bailiff have a walking possesion agreement over any of her things?

sandraroffey

he said to her that he had a warrant of execution??? dont know if its walk in thing. he said that if she doesnt pay when he gets back, he will take all her stuff. but can the council TAKE her oney and give her a receipt for the payment, then say that they arent accepting it??? they TOOK the money. surely that means its been accepted and thats that.

give_them_FA

If she hasn't allowed the bailiff admittance there is nothing he can really do, so long as she does not allow him to enter the house. Make sure there is nothing valuable (car, for example) in an identifiable place outside the house, then, keep all doors and windows locked shut and if he calls politely tell him he isn't going to be allowed in.

A bailiff has no right of entry by force unless he has already been allowed to enter the property; and you say that hasn't happened. Though beware of him trying to trick his way in by saying he needs to phone his office, or even use the toilet! Best to speak to him from an upstairs window if possible. If she has a camera phone then video the conversation!

If it's obvious you know your rights they will generally give it up as a bad job. Meantime you can negotiate with the coucil to pay whatever was registered as a debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre. This is all they are actually entitled to and they should not have returned her payment on account.

If she did not receive the paperwork she should make a declaration to that effect and that should set the whole process right back to where the £80 is all she owes.

sandraroffey

just spoke to her and she said she thinks he said he had a warrent of execution and would come back with a council enforcement officer to get in, if she doesnt pay. if he has a walking possession order, would he still be able to break in???? and would he need a council enforcement officer?? i thought they needed the police in attendance to do that??

give_them_FA

Cannot do that. Bailiffs cannot force their way in. They can only "enter peacefully"- i.e. if you leave a door or window unlocked, or you allow them to come in. A "warrant of execution" means nothing of that sort here. It is not like a police "search warrant" where a CRIMINAL court has given them the right of entry. This is a CIVIL matter- entirely different. The presence (highly unlikely) of a council officer does not alter the position. They can both stand cooling their bums outside the house.

Remember that bailiffs know the limitations of their powers and will try to take advantage of the average person's ignorance of the law.

Google it if you are in any doubt. Generally a bailiff will make maybe three visits, if its clear he won't be allowed in he returns the warrant to the council and moves on to easier targets. When the warrant goes back to the Council those exorbitant charges are no longer payable and you can pay the council what you actually owe them.

vax2002

sandraroffey wrote: »

just spoke to her and she said she thinks he said he had a warrant of execution and would come back with a council enforcement office to get in, if she doesnt pay.

Bailiff law is one of the oldest and first bits of "sea law" there is.
Mercantile law with the court acting as a ships court, yes a ship, the bailiff warrant does not give them power to force entry, they must be invited in to the home as it constitutes dry land and sits under common law (law of the land)

They are very good at tricking the invitation from you, but once invited over the threshold it is game over.
Leave no goods of value outside especially vehicles registered to the owner, don't not open any door or leave open any windows and place a sign upon the gate stating that any
"implied right of access is revoked to all persons , private property keep out"

If the police arrive as said from an upstairs windows, ask them to confirm they are acting upon oath, they will confirm they are and this forbids them from assisting the bailiffs from forcing entry as again placing them on oath puts them in to common law jurisdiction upon private land.
This will be the second visit after that there will be one more and they go away and pass the file back to the council.

Other general advice, accept no papers or sign anything
In the meantime register on pepippo and file for the ticket to be returned to the NIP stage.

TrickyWicky

Be warned a couple of years ago there was rumour of a new rule that would allow bailiffs to BREAK IN to recover goods for outstanding parking fines. I've no idea if this ever went through though as I left the job roundabout that time.

Either way, you need to ring the parking services dept and speak to them urgently. Your daughter hasn't forgotten them, she's just ignored them. She'll of had at least two letters about this - one being an NTO. In the eyes of the law she's accepted wrong doing (by not appealing) and just decided to ignore it hence the bailiff being involved.

As for the payment being refunded, they can pretty much do as they want. Some councils would take it, swallow it and call off the bailiffs while others will do anything to make life harder for you. If its the Ashford I think you're talking about then the department has a somewhat militant approach to the motorist.

If the bailiff has spoken to them and told them its too late and they've refunded on his word then you may still have room to manouvere as a council I worked for kept its bailiffs on a tight leash with things like that.

RING THEM and speak to them NOW.

give_them_FA

Allowing the bailiffs to force their way in was a proposal put up by the last freedom loving labour government and their one eyed prime minister. It never got anywhere as they were kicked out of office first.

So the bailiff still has no right of entry. It would be good to have a couple of friends present to witness what goes on, just in case.

sandraroffey

quick update here. on the basis that they had taken her money, and then refunded it back on the bailiffs say-so, she went to her local court and asked what could be done. they showed her how to make a complaint online, to the court that dealt with it.

she also phone the council and told them what she had done. te council put it all on hold until hr complaint could be dealt with.

in the meantime, Mr Bailiff was still giving her threatening phone calls...i will be at your home today or tomorrow or sunday..etc., so she phoned the council again and asked what they were playing at and told them what was STILL happening with the bailiff.

long and short is, when they got confirmation from the court that a formal complaint had indeed been made, they phoned her and told her that the bailiff had been called off, and the fine had been taken back down to the original £80. and very sorry for what had happened.

brilliant result, and yes she paid it immediately. and a big thank you to all the advice on here.

give_them_FA

Nice one!
:T