Restoration of the age related allowance

teajug

Thrugelmir wrote: »

That totally misses the wider issue. The welfare system in Western Europe is totally unaffordable. The days of plentiful were a myth. Based on excessive amounts of credit spend creating an unsustainable level of growth. Visit Eire and you'll see that they've taken a much tougher stance on debt reduction than the UK.

As far as I am aware the EU countries pay far more to pensioners by way of state pensions and other benefits then UK. They may be taking tougher stance on debt reduction, but not at the expenses of pensioners. I know the Greeks have had over the top pensions and people there being able to retire at the age of 50 with good pensions but I think that has stopped now. Also, the higher earners in Greece got away without paying taxes just like here in the UK, but that is changing now if they want to stay in the EU. Can you give me figures regarding the EU pensions compared to UK.

teajug

atush wrote: »

There are some downsides to Sweden's system incl if you marry you MUST display your addess publicly which has lead to murders, and people not getting married when they wanted to, and therefore inheritance issues.

Consider the case of the late Stieg Larsson whose novels were published posthumously and his estate worth many millions. instead of going to his partner of 30 years (they didn't marry as they were left wing journelists who had received many death threats so wanted to keep their address off record) who helped write his books, the 100's of millions went to his father and brother whom he was estranged from hadn't spoken to in over 25 years. His father hadn't even raised him.

He had made a will but died the day before he had an appt to sign it. They even tried to have her evicted from their jointly owned apt in Stockholm.

What has that got to do with publishing tax returns. It was unfortunate that he died the day before he sign the will but that has nothing to do with anything either.

hugheskevi

As far as I am aware the EU countries pay far more to pensioners by way of state pensions and other benefits then UK.

Correct, although the UK has far more private provision than most European countries.

Can you give me figures regarding the EU pensions compared to UK.

There are some here - UK comes lower mid-table. Quite how you set the criteria makes a big difference - looking at replacement rates takes account of different purchasing power but there are alternatives.

teajug

hugheskevi wrote: »

Correct, although the UK has far more private provision than most European countries.

There are some here - UK comes lower mid-table. Quite how you set the criteria makes a big difference - looking at replacement rates takes account of different purchasing power but there are alternatives.

As mentioned before most pensioners today were not able to access private providers becaues they were no pension scheme were they worked or could not afford to be in one and as mentioned before they thought that they would be provided for by their partners pension and paid a low rate of NI.

Your like does not work, ti will not open for me. I have found one and you will see that the UK is at the bottom of the countries listed on the link and hope it works.

http://www.pension100.co.uk/pensions/worsteupension1.htm

elantan

What annoys me alot is that a large portion of society that are currently working (and not working aswell) are not making any savings plans for their own retirement

They expect to get the state allowance and whatever benefots to bring them up to a decent standard of living ....

hugheskevi

As mentioned before most pensioners today were not able to access private providers becaues they were no pension scheme were they worked or could not afford to be in one and as mentioned before they thought that they would be provided for by their partners pension and paid a low rate of NI.

About 70% of pensioner households have private pension income, according to Pensioner Income Series (page 45)

Your link does not work, it will not open for me.

Sorry - Eurostat is a horrible data source, hard to find what you need and then hard to link.

This link should work, and the relevant table is "Aggregate replacement ratio (excluding other social benefits)"

Ainsley1

It is some time since I posted on this thread and I find many of the posts both enlightening and also disturbing too! There are several common themes.

For example hugheskevi (amongst others) makes some good points about the complexity of the welfare/benefits system which surely must be overhauled - not a simple task. it is also fraught with dangers that individuals or groups will be treated unfairly so it would actually be very difficult to get right, but perhaps try we should. The current 'simplification' under this thread's theme is a case in point of how it can go badly wrong.

However as has also been pointed out some points are not related to pensioners only. The complexity of welfare and many of the benefits (plus some not listed in hugheskevi's post) apply equally to working people. Similarly age allowance is not directly linked to pensions but we generalise as it that mostly people of those ages are pensioners.

I think many agree that the systems in place should reflect need, be efficient and actually benefit those needy people. Some do not need it such as is also the case with child allowances etc where people have a choice to have children. Generally people do not have a choice in getting old.

There are also some red herrings in arguments such as the £120 reduction for energy which can be useless. I questioned one persons qualification for this and was told they qualify but only off a more expensive tariff than they were already on so it became pointless.

I believe that it is fair to link support for 'need' and to true income, and not assets for the majority of people. This is the best measure of a persons ability to survive adequately - except perhaps for those who can afford to avoid declaration of income! I can see no alternative (over and above flat rate payments which do not necessarily reflect need) to a 'means test' by another name! But please let there only be one.

Until then keep the benefits that help people of advancing years, reduced ability and greater need cope. There are lots of other ways of saving costs. (such as catching those who cheat the systems be it welfare or tax 'avoidance' schemes, sorry.... evasion.

atush

teajug wrote: »

What has that got to do with publishing tax returns. It was unfortunate that he died the day before he sign the will but that has nothing to do with anything either.

It has everything to do with privacy and safety of personal information. And for all I know, they are forced to give out their addresses too? In the day of ID theft, and looinies with guns, I think safety of personal info/addresses should be preserved.

I am sure some sort of info release with certain things redacted might be fair, but not under the sewdish system. Where there is danger in publishing public figure's addresses.

teajug

atush wrote: »

It has everything to do with privacy and safety of personal information. And for all I know, they are forced to give out their addresses too? In the day of ID theft, and looinies with guns, I think safety of personal info/addresses should be preserved.

I am sure some sort of info release with certain things redacted might be fair, but not under the sewdish system. Where there is danger in publishing public figure's addresses.

You do not know if they have to give out address and if they do I am sure If loonies wants to kill people than there is nothing anyone can do about it. People address can be access though the internet as well as telephone system. Nothing is private nowadays as you know the government wants to have access to people emails telephone calls and also local authorities can do this as well.

Also American's publish their tax returns as well so why not UK. We all know that the rich have many addresses and who will know which one they are actually using at any one time as their resident.

atush

Personal information such as tax ID numbers, and addresses should NOT be made public. It is unsafe. Period.

And I am american and do not have to publish mine for public perusal, and if they are required (such as politiicians) information such as SS numbers and addresses are redacted.