Can they Make me Homeless after Two and a Half Years?

silvercar

I would write to the OR and the Coventry, explaining that you have paid towards the unsecured loan not realising it was included in the bankruptcy and that money should be refunded. I don't know if you have an IPA, but it may be worth arguing that you have lived below your essential needs because of that payment. At worst that money should be credited against your main mortgage account, possibly giving you a few mortgage free months now??

As for the 15k, if the OR had to sell the property, they would legal costs and estate agents fees, so the amount they would gain would be less than 15k, therefore they should ( in the interests of getting as much for your creditors as possible) accept something lower that 15k rather than push for a sale. Also check if there are redemption fees on your mortgage, as that is also something that would be knocked off the amount the OR would yield.

silvercar

Another thought, the more the capital on your mortgage is reduced the more equity in your property, the harder it is to buy back the equity and keep your home.

The unsecured loan payments that you have made should be refunded or passed to the OR, you don't want them credited against the capital owed on your mortgage, though credited against the interest is good.

kepar

In my opinion , in reading that you having trouble paying the mortgage and are behind with the payments you should give the house up. Even if you agreed a settlement with the OR, can you raise £8k plus. The even if you did this money would not come off your mortgage and you would still be behind with your payments.
I see that you have been to court a few times to save the house but one of these days if you keep missing payments they will get a repossession order and you will be out and you will have paid the OR for nothing.
On the other hand because of the amount of equity the OR will probably push for a sale to get as much as they can.

A difficult choice for you and I feel sorry for your position but I feel that you are in a losing position. The thought of giving it all up will hurt you, but you will be able to move on and start again. At the end of the day it is only bricks and mortar.

SivEd

silvercar, yes that's what I realised, if I was a gambling man and I knew this was going to happen, I'd have held back on my payments until just the point of repossession in order to reduce the amount the OR would have wanted me to pay.

Another thought I had was that there is going to be a wave of repossessions coming through the system now, just as the economy is beginning to recover (slightly!). I am certain I was not the only bankrupt in negative equity in 2009-10 who has now got a small amount of equity in their homes. I will write my MP about my predicament if the OR doesn't allow me any leeway to keep my home, but I think she should be made aware of this anyway as politically there may be things they can do to alter the receivers policy on this. Not for me, but for people about to come into this house value review period at two and a half years. I'm not saying bankrupts shouldn't be made to sell their homes, but for these relatively small amounts of money there will be hundreds or maybe thousands of people made homeless where a larger charge on the house would be more appropriate. People will sell once the house value has appreciated enough anyway, so the OR will get their money.

I'll know more about OR policy on it - at least in my case - when I speak to them tomorrow.

kepar, what you have said has been said to me before and isn't untrue. Maybe I should just give it all up!

Even if I get through this current crisis with the OR, I am still two months behind on the mortgage now! And the mortgage company are not feeling helpful...

My key issues are that I have this one chance on the housing ladder and I should try and take it, to my last financial breath if I have to!

I have been redundant three times in the last two years, but I am in a new job now which feels as safe as any job I have ever had (company is expanding anyway). I work in IT and it's regarded as a safe area anyway.

Making a very long story short, my problems in the past are entirely related to redundancy and the financial "shock" of marriage and buying a house at the same time (along with budgeting monthly outgoings on a weekly wage, I had real trouble with that for some reason). If I get over this crisis (and the one that will follow with the mortgage company), my current job will pay the mortgage and all the bills. That's all I want from life!

I've been to court three times to save the house. The first two times on my own with the help of the CAB. Each time the situation was one of the mortgage company loosing patience and my getting a new job just before. I've tried to call and negotiate with them prior to court, but no dice. In court, every time, the judge has told them to accept my repayment offer which has been based on budgets I've prepared with the CAB.

The last time I was bankrupt, I attended with a solicitor, but the result was just the same because I had a viable budget.

If the CBS tried to repossess again I suspect the result might be the same. I have a new job and a viable personal economy again.

But... each time, the mortgage company have added their court costs to my mortgage, so they can't loose. Take me to court and win or loose, I pay. I am going to look elsewhere on this site at the possibility of reclaiming back my court costs, and other costs - including the £25 they charge for a computer generated letter!

If I do loose the house, so be it - at least I've tried! 'tis better to have fought and lost etc... I'll be philosophical about it. But my motive is the simple desire to settle down and raise a family! At my age, I got one chance at home ownership. The backup plan is to rent, obviously, but that is money down the drain. I've been in this fight for seven years and to walk away now would be a bit silly after everything I've had to do thus far.

I have actually been actively trying to get into this situation with enough wages to keep the bills paid, and monthly to put everything on a standing order and forget about it!

If the OR will compromise, or I can persuade him to put a charge on the house rather than force a sale, then I am almost there!

The one other area is the fact that with £15,000 beneficial interest in the house going into the bankruptcy, that is close to a 100% repayment of the bankruptcy, so even the unsecured loan from The Coventry would have been repaid. Annulment lol

I'll report back tomorrow about my conversation with the OR. As you say kepar, I will indeed have to find the money somehow, 15k is a no. Plain and simple. But if I get it reduced, I'll have to think long and hard about how to raise it. Any suggestions gratefully accepted! Sadly, selling my body is only of use if I can find a scientist mad enough to find it interesting

silvercar

Good luck with it. Your experience just shows how having the full facts could make a difference.

For anyone with a small amount of equity who is trying to remain in their home, having a repayment mortgage carries a sting. Each and every monthly repayment made reduces the capital owed on the mortgage and directly increases the equity in the property. So 2 years and 9 months down the line, when the OR looks at property value and equity, each repayment made has directly £ for £ increased the amount required to buy back that equity. Now I understand why lenders are not keen to allow bankrupts (or anyone) to move to an interest only mortgage with so little equity in their property, after all they want to protect their interest in case of a repossession, but I would have thought there would have been a case for saying that any equity repaid to the lender between the date of bankruptcy and the date of beneficial interest buy back has already been bought back by the bankrupt and should therefore be ignored when calculating the value of the BI. Otherwise every payment made requires the same payment to be made to the OR to buy back the BI.

Certainly anyone who happens to have taken out an interest only mortgage is at a definite advantage, lower monthly repayments and no increase in equity. (I know in the long term mortgage need to be repaid and it is foolhardy to have an interest only mortgage with no repayment vehicle).

debt_doctor

You have had some excellent advice on here, both in favour of keeping your home, and not, and moving on.
Only you can decide if you want your home (the house that you currently live in) or if you want / decide to set up home somewhere else.
I admire your fight and equally admire your thoughts on should I / shouldn't I call it a day on the house. Talk to some important people in your life and decide.
Good luck.
DD

kepar

My key issues are that I have this one chance on the housing ladder and I should try and take it, to my last financial breath if I have to!

Can I ask why you think this? are you getting on in years lol?

We gave our house up(long story) after br 3 years ago and having turned our lives around we will probably be in a position to put down a large deposit (30%+) in another 4-5 years time. We appreciate that things might be difficult but others who have posted on here have been successful , so we live in hope.


Mortgage rates are starting to rise with major lenders, if your lender starts to raise your interests rates are you in a position to weather the storm?

SivEd

Sorry for the late reply, we had a deadline at work and everything went hectic for a while with 16 hour days etc!

Anyway, I spoke to the OR and the good news is that he thinks that even with 15k BI, they will still only put a charge on the house. Not for any altruistic reasons of preventing homelessness, but because they probably won’t find an insolvency practitioner interested in my area for that amount of BI. Business must be booming for insolvency practitioners…

I asked about negotiating a lower payment or querying the amount of the BI calculation, but the OR stuck to his guns, he said the only way to get a reduction in the BI calculation was to get a quantity surveyor in to find fault in the house that required expensive work.

I have received some excellent advice on here, thanks to all. Unfortunately I am probably going to need more. I am going to start another thread because the CBS have now obtained an eviction date, so I need to go to court again to try and prevent the eviction. For the fourth time!

Not unexpected as I mentioned before, but still stressful! I have to get a solicitor this time, so I’ll talk through with them about the loan repayments made post-bankruptcy, if the judge does decide against me this time, I want to be prepared with everything I can reasonably claim/offset. Including costs this time.

Not sure what a repossession does to the OR’s charge either (or what the charge on the house does to the building societies claim!). The OR must have an interest registered in the house already, can the CBS just sell the house?

I am going to fight the eviction (only three weeks away!), I am in a new job so I can now begin regular repayments on a standing order again, but the CBS just didn’t want to know when I called them and told them this. It is no skin off their nose to take me to court, the charges are all passed on to me anyway. In a situation where someone is willfully not paying their mortgage this is fair, but I (like thousands of others) want to pay, but have been struggling, I believe it is too easy for the mortgage company to take people to court and therefore some of the costs should go their way to at least make them think twice about repossession. Probably costs should be left to the judge to award, not decided by one of the interested parties!

Incidentally, the CBS have also written asking me to begin repayments on the unsecured loan again. I need to double check with the OR that it is included in the bankruptcy. If it isn’t already included, can I include it at this late stage? I would rather begin repayments, but if the house is repossessed, why bother? Or are the CBS just chancing their arm?

It is frustrating that the OR never tell you what is going on. I would have thought that it would be quite a major thing if they added another £11-12,000 onto my bankruptcy. Surely they should tell me this?

kepar, I am 49, so I don't think (allowing five years post-bankruptcy to elapse before I am eligible for another mortgage) it is going to be very easy to get another mortgage starting from scratch? That is a big factor in my decision to fight to try and keep the house. As I said before, if it does get repossessed, I am going to be philosophical, am in a new job, so renting somewhere is possible again. It’s just a pity I can’t stay on the property ladder.

Thanks again

debt_doctor

Hi,
If you can show that you can afford the contractual payment plus something off the arrears then your in with a good chance, I pressume that this is down to the new job - and not the old job where it seems that you could not stick to the previous order despite working recent 16 hour days?
The OR s charge on the property will not make any difference to you winning or losing your possession battle.

DD

SivEd

Thanks DD,

The 16 hour days are in the new job which I started nine weeks ago. It’s a web design company and sometimes things are on deadline and it’s all hands to the pumps to make it on time.


Yes I can make full repayments on the mortgage and something off the arrears. I am disappointed that the mortgage company haven't listened to me telling them this though. I offered the necessary documentary proof, payslips/contracts etc.


You have touched upon a worry for me though. I am worried because I haven't paid anything to the mortgage since I re-started work. Though I have £500 to pay now, I don’t have a full payment this month. You can judge me, indeed please tell me what I should have done differently. This is the March payment, which was due 22nd March. Plus I can set up a standing order, but I won't be able to make that payment (safely) until about 28th this month.

Without giving you too much boring detail about my recent unemployment, last Feb was the last repossession hearing and at that time I was planning on going self employed. I actually ended up fully employed for a few weeks before I got made redundant again (it's been a difficult couple of years!). After this I had some self employment (between 1-3 days a week). After this (about September) the work dried up. So there was a gradual decline in work from Feb to September, when it dried up completely (though I didn't know this for certain at the time). Though I was always looking for something permanent and responded to agents calls etc, it was November that I started looking actively for another job and it was January this year before I decided to claim JSA. In November/December/January, there was little work about (though I got two or three interviews). In February I got a job again.

So during the period of self-employment and unemployment obviously the mortgage repayments were harder and harder. But I did get a loan from a friend and was up-to-date as at November. The arrears are now £6000. I can’t be exact about dates/amounts yet, I am going to write a timeline after my budget, and all this I’ll give to my solicitor.

My worry is that I had I have been in the job for nine weeks now and so far received two pay-cheques. The first one was a definite half size catch-up cheque and there wasn't enough to make a payment towards the mortgage, just enough to live on and pay various minor bills. The second one was supposed to be the one where I began repaying and set up all the standing orders etc, but I held off the Mortgage payment. Unfortunately the problems I had over the previous months came to haunt me and I had a bailiff called in for Council Tax (£575). Ironically I could have covered that on benefits. It was a big mistake not to sign on as soon as I possibly could.

So with this month’s pay I paid off the bailiff and now have only just over half a mortgage payment (about £500 of £865). Which I should have paid to them at least three weeks ago. I can pay this now even.

I am not saying I've done this right, but believe me I have only repaid debts and stayed alive with my earnings so far!

I am doing a proper budget now, and will get the necessary forms to go to court tomorrow (an N5 I think). But I am worried that even when I have paid £500 and had a standing order go out to show willing that the judge won’t be impressed with this.

If I had known the mortgage company were going to get the eviction order so quickly I would have behaved differently. Bailiffs scare the living bejesus out of me so I wanted that one paid up and out the way!

Going forward, there will be a proper budget and I have made them and stuck to them in the past, but it has been a terrible few years for me, with two redundancies and a dodgy employer who just stopped paying me (I had to take him to tribunal and he has only paid part of my award even after two years) plus work drying up at the end of last year leaving me in limbo.

This is why I want a solicitor, it is a convoluted mess that will need to be explained to the judge and I would not be able to do it effectively.

If I get through this time I can and will keep up the repayments, but it really looks bad that this is my fourth time in court! Plus the not paying despite two pay-cheques will look bad. It looks like it is the eviction notice that has prompted me to pay, but that is not the case, it was always planned.