At last, the baby boomers will share the pain

Sapphire

patrick_bs15 wrote: »

It is morally right that the current lot of pensioners should share some of the burden. Anyone read 'The Pinch' by David Willetts? even though i don't agree with his political views, he makes a good case for a slight redistribution of wealth away from the baby boomers.
Stuff like tuition fees / student loans is alien to the current pensioners who went to uni ( they may have received grants and even transport allowances)...

Most of the people who are being targeted in these posts ('boomers') did not go to university. Far fewer people went on to further education in the fifties, sixties and seventies than do now.

House price rises are somehow being 'blamed' on 'baby boomers', and they (the prices) are largely responsible for the economic mess this country is in. House prices went up massively during labour's tenure in office – let's say the late 90s to 2007. The people engaged in property speculation and over-borrowing were not on the whole 'baby boomers', but much younger people. So it's hardly the fault of 'baby boomers' who were born well before then – in the fifties and sixties – that twenty-year-olds cannot buy 'houses'.

Target labour, the banks, financial regulation bodies and greedy speculators for the rise in house prices, not people born in the fifties and sixties.

I really feel this country must get over its obsession with property – no other country in the world is like this. Even in other parts of Europe, the majority of people live quite happily in flats (rented and otherwise), which used to be the case here.

Envy – especially if wrongly directed – is also a very unpleasant characteristic. Unfortunately, it is the parents of the whining generation and the education system that is to blame for spoiling its children and not educating them properly in social history – let alone manners. This by no means applies to all people in their twenties – those with whom I come into contact certainly do not all hold such misplaced views and nasty, offensive attitudes.

ruggedtoast

thorsoak wrote: »

Says it all ....too darn lazy to get any of it yourself! But sorry, the pot is empty ...you and your friends were being so greedy that you broke my pension pot and its all dribbled away.

It is the ATTITUDE that galls me.

I know! The self entitled attitude of the boomer is shocking isn't it?

Your pension pot is fine by the way, nice and full from the taxes of others who won't get one themselves.

thorsoak

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I know! The self entitled attitude of the boomer is shocking isn't it?

Your pension pot is fine by the way, nice and full from the taxes of others who won't get one themselves.

My pension pot wouldn't pay your i-phone bill! At 68, widowed, I'm back at work, 4 days a week, from 6.45am - noon, on nmw because I DONT HAVE A PENSION POT!

And btw - you still haven't confirmed who dragged you up ...thought the wolves would have made a better job of it! - so you must have been besmirched by those Nasty Boomers!

PS - forgot to add, I'm paying tax on my wage, so your JSA is safe!

patrick_bs15

In response to Sapphire -
I absolutely agree with you that the baby boomers shouldn't be 'blamed' for the housing price bubble they benefitted from - the banks & property speculators are responsible.
We all know though that no political party )with a realistic chance of getting into power) will punish the banks...
I also realise that far fewer people went into further education in the 50s / 60s / 70s ... but jobs WITH PROSPECTS were far easier to come by then anyway (and job security better too - admittedly, not in the 70s though...)
I agree that we're too obsessed with property ownership too...
I find it amusing that you blame the education system for what you call 'misplaced views' and 'nasty, offensive attitudes', because I am a mild-mannered primary school teacher with a keen interest in social history! (e.g. I love David Kynaston's books on the subject).

Sapphire

patrick_bs15 wrote: »

In response to Sapphire -
I absolutely agree with you that the baby boomers shouldn't be 'blamed' for the housing price bubble they benefitted from - the banks & property speculators are responsible.
We all know though that no political party )with a realistic chance of getting into power) will punish the banks...
I also realise that far fewer people went into further education in the 50s / 60s / 70s ... but jobs WITH PROSPECTS were far easier to come by then anyway (and job security better too - admittedly, not in the 70s though...)
I agree that we're too obsessed with property ownership too...
I find it amusing that you blame the education system for what you call 'misplaced views' and 'nasty, offensive attitudes', because I am a mild-mannered primary school teacher with a keen interest in social history! (e.g. I love David Kynaston's books on the subject).

I'm sure the pupils you tutor don't hold such views if you teach them social history! (It's a fascinating subject. Society as a whole today is so much better off economically than it was before the 1980s, but ignorant people do not see this.)

With regard to availability of jobs, a. During labour's tenure there was far too much of a focus on property as a means of boosting the economy, and not enough on maintaining and creating British manufacturing; b. There are jobs around (there wouldn't be so many foreigners entering this country and working here if there were not). However, many young indigenous British people today have very high job expectations, particularly if they have been to college, whatever degree they have received, be it in media studies or other like fairly useless subjects. These people simply do not want to start at the bottom at a very low salary, as has been past practice. In my experience, it is actually very useful to start at the bottom – you learn a lot, and perhaps even crystallize in your mind what you would eventually like to aim for.

Another point: in my area, there are literally dozens of large roof and side extensions going up on people's houses - more so than I have ever seen. It is not 'boomers' who are responsible for these, but young people with young children. So obviously, contrary to what some are trying to say, many young families do have a lot of money (or else they are getting themselves into debt with the expectation that the taxpayer will bail them out).

olly300

Sapphire wrote: »

I'm sure the pupils you tutor don't hold such views if you teach them social history! (It's a fascinating subject. Society as a whole today is so much better off economically than it was before the 1980s, but ignorant people do not see this.)

With regard to availability of jobs, a. During labour's tenure there was far too much of a focus on property as a means of boosting the economy, and not enough on maintaining and creating British manufacturing; b. There are jobs around (there wouldn't be so many foreigners entering this country and working here if there were not). However, many young indigenous British people today have very high job expectations, particularly if they have been to college, whatever degree they have received, be it in media studies or other like fairly useless subjects. These people simply do not want to start at the bottom at a very low salary, as has been past practice.

And the fault of that is their parents. A lot of whom are baby boomers.

Also to some extend their teachers, and government policy of promoting education and paying EMA regardless.

Sapphire wrote: »

In my experience, it is actually very useful to start at the bottom – you learn a lot, and perhaps even crystallize in your mind what you would eventually like to aim for.

A lot of young people do have weekend and other jobs particularly during their university years.

However the fact that their parents don't want them to suffer means they give them money that they can't always afford. They also don't expect their children to be doing such jobs and some actively discourage them.

Sapphire wrote: »

Another point: in my area, there are literally dozens of large roof and side extensions going up on people's houses - more so than I have ever seen. It is not 'boomers' who are responsible for these, but young people with young children. So obviously, contrary to what some are trying to say, many young families do have a lot of money (or else they are getting themselves into debt with the expectation that the taxpayer will bail them out).

I know roughly where you live due to what you posted before.

I think you will find that if you find out what jobs people do in the area, who haven't lived there for many years, you will find they are much wealthier than average.

It was also explained to me by one of my baby boomer brothers that it's cheaper to build an extension then to pay stamp duty and moving costs.

bryanb

the_flying_pig wrote: »

true but then i've almost never eaten out in my adult life whereas as a young woman my mother used to have chicken & a basket every Saturday night without fail.

and still that generation had better houses than mine :mad:.

In those days, chicken in a basket was paid for by one's young man!
The young woman paid later.

ruggedtoast

thorsoak wrote: »

My pension pot wouldn't pay your i-phone bill! At 68, widowed, I'm back at work, 4 days a week, from 6.45am - noon, on nmw because I DONT HAVE A PENSION POT!

And btw - you still haven't confirmed who dragged you up ...thought the wolves would have made a better job of it! - so you must have been besmirched by those Nasty Boomers!

PS - forgot to add, I'm paying tax on my wage, so your JSA is safe!

You are basically the oldest boomer, but a boomer nonetheless.

On average the boomer will retire with:

• A state pension of £101 per week
• An un-mortgaged property worth on average £160,000
• One or more company pension schemes, probably final salary

In retirement the boomer can look forward to:

• Winter fuel allowance
• A free bus pass
• Not having to pay to commute to work
• Unlimited free healthcare with free prescription charges

Doesn't sound that bad to me, and I don't have an iphone.

thorsoak

ruggedtoast wrote: »

You are basically the oldest boomer, but a boomer nonetheless.

On average the boomer will retire with:

• A state pension of £101 per week
• An un-mortgaged property worth on average £160,000
• One or more company pension schemes, probably final salary

In retirement the boomer can look forward to:

• Winter fuel allowance
• A free bus pass
• Not having to pay to commute to work
• Unlimited free healthcare with free prescription charges

Doesn't sound that bad to me, and I don't have an iphone.

The majority of the pensioners that I know do not have final salary pension schemes - of those that do have, 6 (out of 11) of them had to take early retirement on ill-health grounds, therefore final salary pension was based on actual salary earned rather than that forecast. Of the remaining 15 have little dribbles of pensions from previous employments which add up to something in the region of £150-200 PER MONTH, 5 couples have no private pension whatsoever and 10 have private pensions whose values fall far below the predicted forecasts.

6 couples are continuing to pay mortgages (repayment - over the next 4-9 years). 5 (those with no private pensions) are in council housing 8-10 couples have paid off mortgages, and the remainder probably have.

The best-off are those 5 couples who live in the council accommodation, who don't have private pensions, and who now get all the benefits - one couple receives in excess of £1,200 per month.

Winter fuel allowance - yes - it now pays for around 250 litres of oil - 2 years ago it paid for 500 litres. We (I) use around 700 litres.

Bus passes - yes - but when you live in a rural area and buses are as rare as hen's teeth - maybe 4 per day - not much use. Oh yes - and the unlimited healthcare ....did you realise that now, once one reaches the age of 70, all screening above and beyond routine screening is first of all referred to the Geriatric Medical Team - to ensure that it will be cost-efficient?

Oh yes. We've never had it so good :cool: - but its better than the alternative.

Graham_Devon

thorsoak wrote: »

Oh yes. We've never had it so good :cool: - but its better than the alternative.

But it will be better than anyone else currently living today based on forecasts.

For instance, you mention council houses and those still living in them. You'd be extremely lucky to get one now, never mind using it to suggest it aint that good for boomers.