how easy/hard would it be to live as self sufficient as possilbe inn the uk?

Lotus-eater

COOLTRIKERCHICK wrote: »

Is anyone self sufficient in something?

I'm almost SS in veg alot of the year, buy in a 25kg bag of spuds once a year, horse carrots by the bag load (for us to eat), cabbages (because I can't grow them and they are cheap, good for you and go a long way) but not much else.
Obviously we eat very seasonably and our diet would be described by many as boring, when we have alot of something, we eat it all the time.

I'm getting an allotment to suppliment the gardens growing potential V soon, so will probably be OK for the cabbages, carrots and spuds then, but I do also sometimes buy in out of season stuff, I bought some courgettes the other day, first time I've bought them from a shop since I started growing them 11 years ago, it was nice to have something different, but it still feels wrong tbh.

Ben84

I was also thinking on a very individual basis. Being too self sufficient looks like a great disadvantage to me as such an individual will almost certainly have to put in more work and resources to make each thing and will have less production of value they can sell. So much of the items we value today, for example medicine or anything with a microchip in we just can't make ourselves, so the ability to sell things for money to buy items we cannot make or to take advantage of the lower item cost of mass production is a huge advantage.

So, I wouldn't shun making things myself as a rule, but I would think carefully about how much diversification is practical. Rather than attempt to directly provide lots of my needs from a piece of land, as people did in the past, I would explore a limited range of productions that would produce both things I could use and that I could sell, so that a decent amount of what I produce gets turned in to money, which is far more flexible and if done right upgrades the value of my time and effort.

Lotus-eater

Ben84 wrote: »

So, I wouldn't shun making things myself as a rule, but I would think carefully about how much diversification is practical. Rather than attempt to directly provide lots of my needs from a piece of land, as people did in the past, I would explore a limited range of productions that would produce both things I could use and that I could sell, so that a decent amount of what I produce gets turned in to money, which is far more flexible and if done right upgrades the value of my time and effort.

That's called specialising Which is what we all do anyway.

I think, if you enjoy it, then do it. If you want to make your own furniture, or clothes, or milk, eggs, bread, honey, gate posts, house (al la Woodland Ben) and enjoy it, then you should. You will probably get a superior product from the result as well.

But you still need to specialise as well, because you need money for the other things that would take too long to make, or you can't make.

So I'm agreeing with Ben. I have known very SS people, very very SS people, but they still need to tax, insure and fuel their landrover, it still needs parts and some skills/tools they may not have. Some of this can be overcome with barter, depending where you live, some can't.

To be truly SS is either a dream or a nightmare.

COOLTRIKERCHICK

Adam i have had john seymour's book for a very long time... I have also got the other book he wrote, 'Fat of the land' which is a great read...

As that has been discussed, you cant truely be self sufficient in this country, plus we have got used to certain products
( marmite!:eek: I could def live without that Lotus...lol..) and lifestyle products.. which would be very difficult to go without..

But I think you can be self sufficient in alot of things...

Or at least certain types of food...wood for fuel etc...

With the things you need to buy/pay for, you could try and be cost neutral....( with some thought..and very good planning?)

Thanks for reminding me Lotus.... neede to get crougette seeds this weekend..

henchard

COOLTRIKERCHICK wrote: »

Just wondering, how hard/easy it would be, to be self sufficient as possible in the uk ? and only spending on the absolute essentials?

The likes of council tax, water rates you can not get away from..

You can get away from water charges; we get our water from our spring.

I'm also self sufficient in wood for heating (from my own wood) and (in effect) electricity from PV panels (which would also charge an electric car should the need arise in the next 20 years or so). I also have enough land to grow my own crops should I wish. However, I have no ideological reasons to be self sufficient merely took sensible decisions to insulate my myself from the vagaries of the market as much as I could. I reasoned that these things will only become more expensive (I did also agree with some of the thoughts of Chris Martenson - google for 'the crash course' I' m not allowed to post links).

I've also planted another 3600 trees (great for my carbon footprint and leaving something for future generations) but whilst I was going to plant some anyway this was mostly driven by the planting grant and the subsidy payments I'll collect for the next 15 years!

Ben84

Lotus-eater wrote: »

That's called specialising Which is what we all do anyway.

I think, if you enjoy it, then do it. If you want to make your own furniture, or clothes, or milk, eggs, bread, honey, gate posts, house (al la Woodland Ben) and enjoy it, then you should. You will probably get a superior product from the result as well.

But you still need to specialise as well, because you need money for the other things that would take too long to make, or you can't make.

So I'm agreeing with Ben. I have known very SS people, very very SS people, but they still need to tax, insure and fuel their landrover, it still needs parts and some skills/tools they may not have. Some of this can be overcome with barter, depending where you live, some can't.

To be truly SS is either a dream or a nightmare.

I'm very much in two minds about it all.

I think I will likely always be the kind of person who goes to a shop and buys a pair of jeans. Right now it's very cheap to do this, but I would like to see the people who make all these things better paid in the future. Even then however, I'm sure it will represent good value. It entirely avoids learning how to make them and having to buy the equipment needed to make them (theirs will surely be better than any I could afford anyway).

Similarly, I was commenting the other day that it's generally better to use an online photo printing service as you get to use a very expensive high dpi photo printer and because they buy in the ink and paper in bulk the total cost per print is typically similar or less than printing them at home - all without investing in any equipment. When things work well, mass production is one of the best aspects of modern life.

The central aspect of it going well is added value, that is turning things in to better things. If sufficient value is added, turning something like sand in to glass or microchips is worth paying for, but there is so much added junk as well. Take a walk down the cleaning isle in basically any supermarket, at a generous estimate I'd say that two thirds of the products just don't represent good value. Glass cleaner isn't worth paying for, a bottle of household ammonia diluted in tap water and put in a spray bottle works better and is exceptionally cheap - it's also great for cleaning and polishing metal/plastics and so far has outperformed any stain remover spray I've tried too.

So, I doubt I'll ever be the kind of person who buys lots of expensive cleaning products when I know I can make my own better ones for almost no extra effort. I don't think I'll ever buy cherries while the tree in my garden provides bowls full of them every year. We can add a lot of value to things ourselves and yet many people don't, but it's these kinds of thing where self sufficiency as an idea shows a much better way of doing some things. Just considering if you can make something yourself and what it's really worth to you personally is an important part of making a good choice about if you should buy it or not.

rogerblack

Itismehonest wrote: »

even bread (unless you want it minus yeast) are out.

Sourdough!
You can either buy a starter, or just leave some flour and water out, until it starts going yeasty, to make a starting sourdough culture.
This can then be grown for years, or even centuries, without any input other than flour and water.

Ken68

Hi Cooltriker, am at the other end of your question. At 76, packing up a few self suffiency tasks.
Given up foraging, maybe gardening next, and water collecting.

Water recyclin g has been the biggest "earner", and growing runner beans (green and for drying) plus the ex woodburner. Can't bear to think of all the sawing and chopping and carting of the wood.
Insulation to keep the heat in.
Charity shops, boot sales and before that Auction Halls.
Been doing it 40 years, more a case of changing ways than giving up.
Fantastic journey, would recommend it to the younger and fitter.

celerity

COOLTRIKERCHICK wrote: »

With the things you need to buy/pay for, you could try and be cost neutral....( with some thought..and very good planning?)

Isn't living "cost neutral" what we all aspire to do anyway though, otherwise we'd be in debt?
Or, so you mean "cost neutral without a rat race job"? I believe that is doable for most people - the main factor would be whether they wanted to risk it.

/\dam

celerity

Lotus-eater wrote: »

I think it is an interesting conversation and I'd like to know what people think they would need to buy in while being SS.

Off the top of my head.
Coffee / Tools / Batteries / Marmite

I agree on these, although I'd like to think these could be stockpiled prior to going SS .
I'd add tea ("English", Chinese and herbal) as a matter of urgency to that list too!
I think Jimmy (of Jimmy's Farm fame) was showing how to make Marmite on TV a while back, but I can't remember if it was edible...
Anyway, my point is, it's fair to assume a bit of hoarding allows you to take a stash of goodies into your SS phase.

Fuel / Animal feed / Wheat

These items are much harder.
You could virtually forego transport fuel provided you were happy to cycle / walk / horseride everywhere*1.
You'd need a significant amount of land and labour to keep you in crops, animal feed and wood fuel though. Even if you had a wood on your doorstep the gathering and splitting of timber is a significant task, and one which needs to be done year in, year out.

If you assume you can readily barter for flour, butter, milk, sugar etc then things become easier. Without that, even making a humble pancake becomes a major series of tasks (and no sliced banana, lemon or maple syrup either, argh! )
Actually, sugar is probably not such a big problem as honey isn't hugely labour intensive - it's the cereals that need land and work.

Internet/computer hardware/software.

I believe we are on the cusp of extremely low cost Internet in this country (and about time too!).
A second hand low energy display can be had very cheaply on eBay and similarly, a keyboard and mouse can be obtained very easily.
Combine that with a low-cost Raspberry Pi Linux computer (http://www.raspberrypi.org/) and you have all the hardware you need.
You then need to pay for your connection, which is the sticking point, but prices are coming down. Depending on your setup, you can get big discounts as part of your normal landline package, or if you want a more "off-grid" solution, you could add a databundle to your smartphone and set up "tethering" to allow your computer to share the connection*2.
Software has been free for years, there are a wealth of Open Source or free-to-use alternatives to paid-apps such as Photoshop, Word, Excel etc.

re: what would I need to import, I've thought about this and the main thing for me would be meat. I am an incredibly greedy carnivore and eat meat several times a day. If I didn't have ready access to beef, duck, fish, lamb etc I would be pretty miserable. If I added up how many animals I'd need to slaughter a year just to keep me happy I think I'd be quite ashamed... (but not ashamed enough to become a veggie!)

/\dam

*1 actually, this isn't strictly true, the technology of wood burning cars is surprisingly advanced! : http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html
*2 requires a wi-fi module if you are using a Raspberry Pi.