All that planning -wasted

atush

StevieJ wrote: »

Investement trusts, Isas etc, attempts at planning income streams on retirement to max out age allowance, wiped out in one go. Next to get whittled away will be state pension for those who have saved for retirement, and how long before the govt insist that pensions aquire new govt bond issues as part of their portfoliio. I think we need a long term level playing field so people can plan well ahead for retirement, you are not going to get it though.

Quit whinging and save that extra 220 you'll save with the higher personal allowance coming up (you weren't expecting that were you) not to mention the higher 140/wk.

margaretclare

It might not be a vote winner, but he could have been really brave and said no more free TV licences, free bus and coach travel and winter fuel allowances. Either across the board or fall all those soon to be eligible.

I'm an older woman and I would have agreed with that. I never agreed with those concessions in the first place. I don't have a bus pass and I wouldn't use free coach travel. It may be true that the 1997 NewLab government was 'swept to power' by younger age-groups, but it is known that older people are more likely to vote than not to. I've acted as a teller at local elections and you can actually see that when you sit at a polling-station for a couple of hours. That's why those concessions were cynical 'vote-catchers' and, worse, a way of hamstringing any future government of any colour. There has been a lot said on the 50+ savers board about the possibility of bus passes disappearing and I am in a minority.

StevieJ

Xbigman wrote: »

When the government decided to put in place a 7k basic state pension you had to wonder how it would be paid for...



X

It will be paid for by not paying those with a personal/company pension £7k or anything like, most probably much lower than the current state pension.

StevieJ

atush wrote: »

Quit whinging and save that extra 220 you'll save with the higher personal allowance coming up (you weren't expecting that were you) not to mention the higher 140/wk.

I won't be getting that, will you?

Rollinghome

opinions4u wrote: »

The various age allowances were always an oddity. No obvious reasons why pensioners should have more tax free income than workers.

That seems to be an argument for getting rid of income tax and VAT (incidentally, paid only by those who buy goods and services in the UK to drive our economy) altogether and introducing a straight poll-tax for everyone.

Different groups of people have different costs and needs at different stages of their lives. Young families have the cost of children and that’s recognised by the tax and benefits system. Older people, especially those aged 75 and over who currently get the higher age allowance are also likely to have higher costs. Being at home they will have higher heating bills and greater needs for various services - not so easy to mend your own roof at 75. The elderly in rural areas may be dependent on taxis for transport.

The full age allowance goes only to those whose income is below the average income. For those with higher incomes it’s taken back at the rate of £1 for every £2 above the income limit until it has gone and only the standard personal allowance then applies.

taking the opportunity to freeze the age allowances means nobody will be worse off as a result of it.

I assume you were taken in by the weasel words of Osborne that "no pensioner would be worse off in cash terms". As the point at which pensioners begin to pay tax is not to be raised with with inflation then they will pay more tax assuming their incomes rise with inflation - aka 'fiscal drag'. Estimates are that that around 230,000 of the poorest pensioners who currently don't pay tax will pay tax in the future.

I'll never make it in politics. But bribing oldies for their votes while running the country in to the ground isn't exactly sensible.

It could be hard to assign greater blame to pensioners for “running the country into the ground” than the bankers who will significantly gain from a cut in 50p tax rate. And there seems to be extra-ordinary envy over free bus passes. Buses need to run whether they are empty or full so the true costs are likely to be small. The health benefits of encouraging elderly people without cars to get out are huge.

Perhaps you like me are one of those who because of their level of income aren't entitled to the age allowance. We don't get it because we don't need it but shouldn’t be so mean minded as to begrudge those that do need it.

Certainly there has been a greater change in attitude in Britain towards the elderly than in other countries. You can see it every day on the tube and trains with old ladies standing and struggling to hold on to a rail while young men sitting in priority seats for the infirm ignore them and play with their i-phones. So perhaps the greatest blame should go to the oldies for bringing up a spoiled, greedy, self-obsessed generation with little concern or feeling of responsibility for anyone but themselves.

Personally, I'm in favour of differential taxation rather than a poll tax.

xylophone

margaretclare wrote: »

I'm an older woman and I would have agreed with that. I never agreed with those concessions in the first place. I don't have a bus pass and I wouldn't use free coach travel. It may be true that the 1997 NewLab government was 'swept to power' by younger age-groups, but it is known that older people are more likely to vote than not to. I've acted as a teller at local elections and you can actually see that when you sit at a polling-station for a couple of hours. That's why those concessions were cynical 'vote-catchers' and, worse, a way of hamstringing any future government of any colour. There has been a lot said on the 50+ savers board about the possibility of bus passes disappearing and I am in a minority.

But perhaps you can drive/have ready access to a car?
There are many older people who don't and for whom paying for public transport would take a large slice out of their income?

StevieJ

xylophone wrote: »

But perhaps you can drive/have ready access to a car?
There are many older people who don't and for whom paying for public transport would take a large slice out of their income?

Surely it is better for pensioners to use public transport than clogging up the roads in their cars.

opinions4u

Rollinghome wrote: »

That seems to be an argument for getting rid of income tax and VAT (incidentally, paid only by those who buy goods and services in the UK to drive our economy) altogether and introducing a straight poll-tax for everyone.

How the hell have you managed to draw those conclusions?

I simply said older people should have the same tax allowance as younger people. Nothing more, nothing less.

Different groups of people have different costs and needs at different stages of their lives. Young families have the cost of children and that’s recognised by the tax and benefits system. Older people, especially those aged 75 and over who currently get the higher age allowance are also likely to have higher costs. Being at home they will have higher heating bills and greater needs for various services - not so easy to mend your own roof at 75. The elderly in rural areas may be dependent on taxis for transport.

So child benefit for families. Winter fuel allowance for the older voter. The taxi can be offset against not needing to own a car, which applies across the board.

The full age allowance goes only to those whose income is below the average income. For those with higher incomes it’s taken back at the rate of £1 for every £2 above the income limit until it has gone and only the standard personal
allowance then applies.

Another complexity in the current system that is well worth getting rid of. This change delivers it.

I assume you were taken in by the weasel words of Osborne that "no pensioner would be worse off in cash terms". As the point at which pensioners begin to pay tax is not to be raised with with inflation then they will pay more tax
assuming their incomes rise with inflation - aka 'fiscal drag'.

But if the standard allowance is raised as rapidly as looks likely this will minimise the impact and make such "drag" relatively modest in a low inflation environment.

It could be hard to assign greater blame to pensioners for “running the country into the ground” than the bankers who will significantly gain from a cut in 50p tax rate.

I didn't.

Rollinghome

opinions4u wrote: »

How the hell have you managed to draw those conclusions?

I simply said older people should have the same tax allowance as younger people. Nothing more, nothing less…. Another complexity in the current system that is well worth getting rid of. This change delivers it.

Or perhaps a little more. You said “the various age allowances were always an oddity. No obvious reasons why pensioners should have more tax free income than workers.” There are lots of what you might consider tax oddities. They are intended to balance different needs. Getting rid all them all would make for a very simple system but not necessarily a fairer one.

opinions4u wrote: »

The taxi can be offset against not needing to own a car, which applies across the board.

Not owning a car, or being too infirm to drive, is not the same as not needing to own a car.

opinions4u wrote: »

But if the standard allowance is raised as rapidly as looks likely this will minimise the impact and make such "drag" relatively modest in a low inflation environment.

That’s rather different to your previous claim that ‘nobody will be worse off as a result of it’.

Your assumption of low inflation may be a tad premature. If you think we are all going get better off in the next few years then you have misunderstood the position we’re in. Certain taxes may fall, others may rise and free services that we had will either go or be paid for privately. Overall, we will all be less well-off with less disposable income.

Those getting an allowance that is being raised will take less of a hit than poorer pensioners whose allowance is not being raised. Better off oldies like me, and perhaps like you, with an income of over £28k or so won’t lose any age allowance so will not be affected.

opinions4u wrote: »

I didn't.

Quite so you didn’t. You said “But bribing oldies for their votes while running the country in to the ground isn't exactly sensible.”

If you’re referring to the age allowance, the “old age relief” was introduced in 1925. If you’re referring to bus passes then I think the causes of our problems went a little further than that.

From your post about the money you lost from chasing after your losses in HBOS shares I assume you’re a former employee of HBOS. If so, you benefited, and perhaps continue to benefit from an HBOS pension, from one of the banks that caused the deficits that we are all now having to repay. I don't begrudge you your HBOS pension, but perhaps you might consider yourself as much part of the problem as pensioners with bus passes.

opinions4u

Perhaps you might consider yourself as much part of the problem as pensioners with bus passes.

No. It's all my fault.