'Rescue' collie with issues

pineapple

A friend bought a half blind collie which was chained up 24/7 after feeling sorry for it. I think the original intention was that he would be a farm dog but he went blind in one eye (cataract). He's between 4 and 5 years old.
He's a lovely affectionate dog who comes when called. No aggression whatsoever. The initial problem was from her old dog who however is now quite friendly with him.
But he is not house trained and wants to 'mark' everywhere.
Plus he wants to hump everything including her. :eek:
The main problem though is separation anxiety. If she leaves him alone in the house he tries to chew/dig his way out. If she leaves him tied up outside (they cleared the shed for use as a kennel) he barks and cries. I think maybe this will pass but she is worried about him disturbing the neighbours.
The fence (as they have discovered) is not dog proof and he has to be on a chain/rope which he always manages to snarl up.
Even when they are all in the house he demands constant attention. At night she has relented and gone downstairs to sleep with him in the kitchen (I know - big mistake) to stop him whining just so as her husband can get some rest before going to work.
The vet prescribed some valium (I think they ALL need it now) which only helped a little - and she is thinking about having him 'done'.
Just wondered if anyone had been through this and what worked.

krlyr

The neutering may help with the marking but I would be wary about neutering a nervous dog - removing testosterone can make things worse. She might want to speak to a behaviourist before she has the op done, it is possible to trial hormonal "neutering" (e.g. injection or implant) so that you can see the effects neutering may have on a dog but in a reversable way. I would recommend she finds someone local from the APBC - http://www.apbc.org.uk
Has the vet ruled out a bladder infection/UTI as the cause of all the marking? Alternatively, some investigations into his health as a whole may be worthwhile. For example, cateracts can be associated with diabetes, as can excessive urination. Vets apparently do something called a "behaviour panel" which is a blood test that focuses on conditions that can express themselves as behavioural issues, so it could tie in with the seperation anxiety.
I would be wary of using medication for seperation anxiety and if it's that extreme that it requires medication, I know you should choose the drug carefully (some have a sedative effect on the body but not on the mind - cue dog stressing even more because they cannot control their body) and it should be used in conjunction with a behavioural/training plan, it is not likely to just fix itself with medication alone.
I recently had to deal with seperation anxiety in one of my dogs caused by our house move. There's a good booklet called "Please don't leave me!" by Patricia McConnell, though most of the information is available online if you know where to look (but the booklet puts it all in one place without any worrying dominance-theory type advice). The other book I bought, which is very indepth and gives several case studies, is "Don't Leave Me! Step-by-Step Help for Your Dog's Separation Anxiety" by Nicole Wilde, I would definately recommend it (and cost me about £6 on a Kindle)
I invested in several calmative products to use, the downside to buying them all at once was that I couldn't pinpoint which one was working, but as I had to leave her during the day to go to work and the neighbour had raised the issue with us, I just wanted to get on top of it ASAP and figured I could remove each calmative one at a time - if the symptoms returned, I could put the last removed one back into play and see if that's what made the difference.
Things I tried were:
- DAP spray, this is a pheromone that mimics the one a mother dog releases to calm pups. Available in a spray, diffuser and impregnated onto a collar
- Pet Remedy diffuser. An alternative to DAP, uses herbal oils, e.g. valerian oil. Heard that this can work where DAP doesn't so I decided to use the spray on her bed and the diffuser plugged in to one corner of the room
- a Thundershirt. A tight-fitting (but stretchy) coat that works in the same ways that swaddling a baby calms them down, or a tight hug can calm someone with anxiety (think it's used in autism too). They do a moneyback guarantee so no money lost here by trying this.
- Zylkene, a milk-based supplement designed to calm a dog down. You give a dose daily and it builds up in the system.
- Calmex, a similar supplement but this one is amino acids and b-vitamins. This one is supposed to have a more immediate effect and does not need to be built up in the system, you administer it 30-60 minutes before needed. I initially bought the Zylkene but then decided to try Calmex for the short-term effect because she was very anxious, I thought that if I could calm her down for a few days and let all the other products help, I could then switch her to Zylkene and keep her on that for a month or so to take the edge off her stress
- magnesium supplements. You can buy a pet-specific one called "Stressless" but I just bought some tablets from H&B. Two-fold effect here - magnesium deficiency can cause anxiety, but an anxious dog also burns off more magnesium. I wanted to rule this out and as excess magnesium is just peed out, there was no harm in trying it (they're raw-fed too, so it's not like with a complete dogfood where the food is supplemented with a good portion, if not over, the GDA)

I also implemented several new things to help calm her, like making her bed a "chill zone" - no one was allowed to do any excitable interaction with her when she was on her bed, so the other dog wasn't allowed to playfight when she was on it, OH couldn't go and start a game unless he called her off it, and when she was on it I did lots of calming interactions, like stroking or massaging her. I also started training a proper "settle" command for on the bed (try Youtube for instructions on this), which is different to just sending the dog to the bed, you're actually teaching/rewarding the act of relaxing (so I wouldn't reward her for laying on the bed, alert, watching me for a teach - but the second she rested her head down on the bed she got a treat, and over time I extended that to 2 seconds resting her head, 5, 10, 30, then she had to lie back on her side rather than be sitting upright, etc)
- using a radio, not as company (but you can try this to see if it helps - in proper seperation anxiety it probably won't make a difference) but as a cue for me leaving. A behaviourist told me that this is a good way to avoid undoing damage when you *have* to leave a dog. I rearranged work hours but still had to go out for 4 hours a day - so when I did, I flicked the radio on. The idea is that the dog associates the radio with being left for a long time, so even though they will get distressed, they can distinguish between the times they will definately be left too long, and the times you're leaving them for 5 seconds, 10 seconds, etc. in training.
- increasing mental stimulation, doing clicker training in the morning before I left, making her walks more mentally stimulating by encouraging her to sniff throguh long grass (sniffing makes them use their minds), hiding toys, etc.
- avoiding behaviour that increases stress, for example, although Collies love to fetch, chasing produces adrenaline which can take a while to get out of the system, so don't have your friend continously throw a ball for 20 minutes to try to wear the dog out, it will build up the adrenaline and make the dog quicker to stress when left
- feeding meals in Kongs or activity balls so they keep the dog busier for longer. Once the dog is accustomed to a Kong, she can make it more challenging by freezing food inside it.
- encouraging the dog to have some independence when they are home. So even if they're home at dinner time, encourage the dog to stay on its bed or in another room with a Kong - don't physically shut it out but just try to encourage that bit of seperation
- making every 'leaving' experience a positive one. With Kiki, she would whine and stress even when one of us nipped up to the toilet. I got into the habit of smearing cream cheese inside a Kong and leaving that down for her when I nipped up to the loo, or scattering a handful of treats on the floor for her to sniff out. I actually found that, although it doesn't seem that significant in the grand scheme of things, this had one of the biggest positive effects on her behaviour

The books recommended will cover a lot in terms of the actual routine to use to desensitize him to being left, it is hard work, and if your friend can find any way to avoid leaving him while she's addressing this (working from home, having friends or relatives dogsit, taking him with her to places, etc.) it will help things progress. As I said, I couldn't get time of work completely but arranged 2 weeks where I worked from home in the morning - this allowed me to fit in an extra long walk before I left them in the afternoon (and often OH got home before me so they were only left a couple of hours instead of 4), but the radio cue can help in the instances she can't avoid leaving him, I know it's not always practical/possible to never leave a dog alone.
Good luck, I hope she manages to tackle it quickly, and if she feels overwhelmed, a good APBC behaviourist can be worth their weight in gold.

krlyr

Also would really recommend she set up a webcam to monitor what he does - I just used my laptop (plugged into the mains so it lasted - removing the battery may be a good idea when doing this though to prevent 'aging' it with the constant charging) and downloaded a free program called Debut Video or something like that (came from filehippo.com). She might find there's a trigger for it - e.g. postman arrives and he goes nuts chewing at the door because he knows there's someone behind it, or there's a cheeky squirrel teasing him through the kitchen window winding him up (I fitted frosted window film to the kitchen doors as they were whole glass doors - went up to handle-height to block the dog's view of the back garden, and I close the blinds in the living room when we go). Plus it's good for tracking progress - it sounds really minor but I remember celebrating the first time Kiki went and laid on her bed for 5 minutes, instead of unsettled pacing and barking. 10 minutes was great, 20 minutes fantastic! I could also make note of things she did to made adaptions to change them - we noticed her standing on the armchair watching out of the window, so we moved it and put a bed there instead, and she settled down on the bed instead of being tense, watching through the gaps in the blind (the height from standing on the armchair let her peek through the angled slats of the venetian blind). I noticed that she got more distressed about a minute after we shut the door - I realised that it must be the sound of the car starting up or the car door, so I started parking several doors down for a week to remove the association of the engine noise and being let alone. It was a big help to have a visual account of what she was doing, and I found it interesting to watch back too as you can compare your progress - day 9, for example, seemed bad at the time but when I watched back on day 3, we'd made several progress steps since then. It's easy to forget when you're in the midst of it all because it is a stressful situation, knowing that your dog is distressed on top of worrying about upsetting your neighbours.
Speaking of neighbours, I ended up popping a note in to the door of the one that mentioned it to us, just to thank them for making us aware, that it was a new behaviour and saying that we were now dealing with it. We popped around to speak to the others (much more approachable) just to apologise, though they have a dog of their own who can be a bit vocal so they were fine with it.

pineapple

Wow thanks so much for all this. I have forwarded it to her.
I think, considering this is a dog which has spent most of it's life outside chained up - it's amazing that it is so good natured and it's not surprising that there will be issues.
I hope she can persevere because we took my dog, her older dog and the new dog out together in the field and it was a joy to see them running together. Of course he can't see properly so you have to redirect him occasionally by calling him - and he always comes.
Cheers

cavework

The dog is insecure. He was left chained up 24/7 in his old home and now your friend is tethering him in the back garden? Even for short periods this poor dog thinks the same is happening again
You don't say how long your friend has had this dog.
Imagine if you had been in this situation, then removed from it only to be put in a similar situation again. You would be stressed out and need a lot of reassurance.
The fence needs to be made dog proof , its not the dogs fault he can escape .
Could the dog sleep in the bedroom for a while?
The owner needs to build up the trust of the dog before leaving it, the dog needs to know that the owner will always return. This takes time . Start off leaving it in one room while she is in another , go back after 10 mins to reassure the dog , then stretch to 20 mins , slowly build this up.
We have had a rescue for one month now who was abused, today was the first day we left her on her own for 30 mins with no one in the house.
We returned and she was lying happily in her basket. She is 9 months old.
Tell your friend to look at it from the dogs perspective , it is really hard work and takes an awful lot of patience when dealing with one of these dogs and there are days when you could really throw in the towel, but the rewards as things start to come together and the loyalty the dog will give in return is fantastic.
x

pineapple

My friend is an experienced owner of border collies but is certainly guilty of naivety in her anticipation of the extent of the issues or the degree to which the family would be affected. Since the dog seemed settled when it was tied up constantly, she wrongly assumed that just been tied up short periods would be OK. Clearly the introduction to a domestic environment, the first decent human attention as well as alien surroundings threw the poor thing off balance. She now understands all that and is just looking for the best way to help her and the dog deal with the various issues.
One thing that has emerged... Due to his previous lifestyle he likes to bury his food - yes he has even tried to bury it under the house floorboards. He has also carefully covered uneaten food with stones.
Anyhow she does have to work one day a week and I will be dog sitting/walking on those days so all advice gratefully received!
Cheers
PS she did try letting him stay in the bedroom at night and he kept trying to get into bed with her and her husband.
Where's The Dog Whisperer when you need him?:rotfl:

krlyr

pineapple wrote: »

Where's The Dog Whisperer when you need him?:rotfl:

As far away as he can possibly be I hope - your friend is much better following the fair, kind and modern methods of the APDT/APBC!
http://www.apdt.co.uk and http://www.apbc.org.uk if your friend does need professional help.

If the dog is more settled up in the bedroom then maybe your friend could try a crate or a puppypen in the room for him? Alternatively, put a babygate across the bedroom door and leave him a bed on the hallway, so he can see, hear and smell people but not climb into bed. I know it's tempting to lay down ground rules straight away but sometimes a bit of leniency in the initial stages can help make it easier for the dog to adjust to changes and you can reach the end goal easier - with Kiki, we originally didn't want to leave her in the living room when we went to work (kitchen is bigger anyway, but we'd just redecorated the room, plus we thought they might bark at passing traffic as we've moved somewhere less rural than before) but I found out one day (by her eating the handle off the babygate and letting herself in!) that she settled much better with access to the living room too. So we now contain them to the living room and kitchen, it's helped with her progress a lot, and I just invested in some rugs/runners to protect the flooring (and we'll do our final coat of paint at a later date to hide all the dirt marks from the dogs on the walls!). Eventually we might confine her to the kitchen again in the future but only once I'm sure she's settled in enough that it won't cause a relapse of her behaviour.

hethmar

Hi, tell your friend to contact Wiccaweys rescue kennels - they are experts in border collie behaviour and will be more than happy to help her. Have a google for their website.

RevengeisSweet_3

I have 6 border collies, when we first got ours they did spray in the house esp when in tact and was due to male testosterone..

The dog is bored, if hes diggig his way out and been left for longer than 4 hours a time, collies are very intelligent dogs and will find their own amusement if you dont provide stimulation, he needs to be walked if possible when your friend is at work, get him into agility or obedience or dog shows...

Stop tethering him up, its an awful thing to do, they will go collie crazy, get kong balls and put in treats and cheese and leave them around the house for him to find..

neutering can calm a collie down, but this all depends on his nature, my young male collie whos 5 still as bouncy but they do chill from age of 7ish on wards.. my oldiest collie is 15 and still got umph about him but hes got wobbly legs syndrome but hes still willing but is so serence compared to when he was a pup..