MSE News: Budget 2012: Top rate tax to fall to 45%

le_loup

[QUOTE=Randvegeta;52001581But I'm not going to contribute to this benefit ridden, 'entitlement' society.
[/QUOTE]
You have been saying this for so long ... but I see you're still here.
Perhaps you can take the benefits of your British education and health care and then go to some other part of the world who don't have them and pay an appropriate tax level. Hong Kong perhaps?

Randvegeta

le_loup wrote: »

You have been saying this for so long ... but I see you're still here.
Perhaps you can take the benefits of your British education and health care and then go to some other part of the world who don't have them and pay an appropriate tax level. Hong Kong perhaps?

Born in HK, educated in HK, paid for my own university education, private health care, private dentist...

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, I said I would leave when my GF graduates. If you went to school, you would know the term typically ends in July!

Sadly, not everyone in the UK is smart enough to go to University, or figure out that a student loan is not really the same as regular debt.

Pennywise

It's FACT that people can mobilise themselves and move to different countries. Let's forget the ideology of whether it's right or not that people can move tax jurisdictions - it happens and can't be stopped. With the internet, there are plenty of businesses that can pick and choose where they base themselves.

So, let's move on.

We want rich people coming to the UK to pay UK tax and spend their money in the UK. We want them to start businesses in the UK and employ people, who in turn pay tax and spend in the UK.

So we need a competitive tax system that encourages the rich to move to or stay in the UK.

A classic case is one of my clients. A work from home internet based business selling downloads. They can operate from anywhere in the world with a broadband connection - they have no physical goods. Comparatively few of their customers are in the UK - their biggest market is USA, closely followed by Australia and then the Far East. At the moment, they are UK based, pay corporation tax on ALL business profits in the UK, and pay personal taxes, fuel duties, VAT, council tax, etc etc - they don't currently claim any benefits (no kids). They are highly mobile. They already spend a few months of the year abroad. They're at the tipping point where they are seriously thinking of leaving the UK and living abroad instead. If they do that, the UK will get NOTHING from them, no corporation tax, no VAT, no fuel duty, etc. Their trade won't be replaced by another UK company paying UK tax, because they'll still be trading as normal. If they leave the UK, the UK Treasury will lose tens, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds. At the moment, the UK Treasury is beneffiting from tax on profits of sales to other countries.

The reality is that we're now in a global market. Whether or not it's fair that some people are stuck here and others are mobile is irrelevant. We can't do anything about it other than improve our education system and broaden peoples' minds to help them be mobile too. Isn't it something like the richest 10% of the population pay 90% of all tax revenues? Where would we be if those top 10% !!!!!!ed off? We'd have a hell of a hole in our tax revenues wouldn't we?

Why do you think that Chancellors only ever tinker around the edges of the tax system? It's because the whole thing is a knife edge. They have to tread very carefully. They are dealing with peoples' behaviour, and as studies have often proved, behaviour is often illogical. If someone is earning a couple of hundred thousand, they are already paying tens of thousand in tax and NIC. If you push too strongly, you may well lose ALL that tax, when trying to grab just £5k extra (like the rise from 40-50%!).

Randvegeta

Well put Pennywise!

Indeed it is not about what is 'morally' right and wrong. It is simply a matter of doing somthing to not only keep, but attract high earners to this country.

It is not morally wrong to leave the country to pay less tax if you income is not of UK source. In what possible way is it wrong if you have a job and pay tax in another country.

And to people like Le Loup, ignorant to the fact that not everyone is leech! Le Loup seems to think I benefit from many of the UK's public services, which I don't. And most wealthy people tend not to benefit either since they all go private any way. Private healthcare, private education, private pension.

As for everything else, while I am here, I do pay council tax, I do pay VAT on goods I buy, I do pay road tax, I do pay stamp duty, I do pay duty on fuel, I do pay tax on interest earned, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, I spend my hard earned overseas money here.

What do I owe this country? What possible reason can you give me, Le Loup, to pay these high levels of tax, knowing that I enjoy few (if any) of the benefits it has to offer.

But if it pleases you so to see the wealthy leave, again, I hope you enjoy picking up the very large bill you will be left with when the government hasn't the tax receipts to pay it's bills.

le_loup

And still you're here.
It must be hatefull for you.
Never mind you will be free soon then all you have to hope for is that you don't fall ill and can't work anymore.
Good luck.

Randvegeta

le_loup wrote: »

And still you're here.
It must be hatefull for you.
Never mind you will be free soon then all you have to hope for is that you don't fall ill and can't work anymore.
Good luck.

Your words seem so full of smugness and hatred. Are you so easily offended by opposing views?

Luckily for me I have many options.

1. I am without debt and with significant savings/assets (given my age at least).

2. Should I ever need to, I could head back to HK and recieve all the care I need in Hong Kong, albeit at a much less generous amount than the UK... But then again, I am happy with that since I wouldn't want to be a leech on society!

3. Most other EU countries also offer a reasonable level of care. Lithuania has a tax rate of just 15% and I feel confident that should I fall ill, I would recieve a decent standard of health care as part of their own government system. Though I would probably go private and have my private health insurance cover the cost .

4. All of which can be acheived while paying LESS than half of what would be paid in the UK.

It is sad you cannot see this. And by 'this' I mean that the UK tax system is grossly unfair and not at all competitive in the global economy.

le_loup

Me? Smug? Have you read what you just posted?
Never mind, as long as you close the door when you leave and, as I said before, good luck.

Randvegeta

le_loup wrote: »

Me? Smug? Have you read what you just posted?
Never mind, as long as you close the door when you leave and, as I said before, good luck.

Actually you know what? I think I'll keep the door wide open. You never know when things go south! I'll always have the right to live in the UK and claim all manor of benefits should the worst come to worst.

Unemployment benefits, disability allowance, you name it!

Nice to know it's always here for me . So I'll keep this door WIDE open indeed.

TheSandman

Randvegeta, you certainly have a good grasp of basic economics. I should have realised you weren't educated here!

Yes, only a very insignificant number of the population can adequately describe the difference between wealth creators and wealth distributors. To compare two people on equal earnings and somehow label them as equal weighting to the health of the economy is rather naive.

Taking a shopkeeper, taking in £25K profit from others and proceeding to redistribute it to his landlord, supermarket etc, no wealth has been created. Indeed, as soon as he buys a japanese tv, german car, chinese tat, or goes on holiday suddenly he's haemmorraging the wealth created by others.

The other critical points in the budget, VAT and fuel duty, were right to stay where they are. Consumption is not what you base an economy on and every gallon of fuel used is either money lost through importing oil or a gallon of domestic production that couldn't be exported.

I'm a fair distance from being able to live solely from investment returns but as soon as I am you can be sure I'll be somewhere with nicer roads, better weather, cheaper beer, lower taxes and prettier girls!

Randvegeta

TheSandman wrote: »

I'm a fair distance from being able to live solely from investment returns but as soon as I am you can be sure I'll be somewhere with nicer roads, better weather, cheaper beer, lower taxes and prettier girls!

Indeed there is a big difference between wealth creators and wealth distributors. However I think you expressed my ideas much more eloquently.

My guess is Le Loup is probably of the distributing type, and if he owns any goods produced overseas, or uses any imported resources, is probably sending more and more of this nation's wealth AWAY! Thanks for that. Probably he works in the public sectore which we all know is a 'non-producing' part of society, but think everyone else should pay their way any way.

Moving on!

We should be fair.

The roads in the UK are not bad at all. I'm pretty well travelled and I can't think of many places with superior roads AND superior taxes. HK is somewhat of an exception, but you would need a LOT more money to drive a car in HK than UK. HK is a fantastic playground for the rich but most normal people wouldn't own even own a car.

Better weather, sure plenty of places I can think of. But I don't really take weather into consideration when I'm thinking about where to call 'home'. For me, standard of living/quality of life is much more important, and generally speaking, weather plays only a small part in that. At least to me.

Lower taxes? If you are confined to the EU due to visa restrictions, check out the eastern parts of Europe like Lithuania (and the rest of the Baltics). Just 15% income tax, and prices over there are less than half of the UK. With the same money, you could buy a fantastic standard of living :-).

As for the pretty girls, indeed try the Baltics too! Mind you, once you find your special someone, I doubt it's that important what everyone else looks like :P