Should Sunday trading restrictions be lifted?

CupcakeSquirrel

Whilst I support the removal of Sunday trading rules, I do think that there should be some support given to those people for whom Sunday is a day of worship, in that they should not be made to work if they do not wish to. Given the laws exist under the Equalities Act to protect people with regards to the protected characteristics (of which religion is one), then I don't think this would be a big problem.

albinohawk

Allowing it gives people the choice. If they want to go shopping they can, if they don't then no need to go to the shops. Additional freedom isn't a bad thing from a consumer point of view.

Of course employees need to be protected from undue pressure to work on religious days, but then that's a separate issue only highlighted by this one - after all it's not just Sundays that need to be preserved for active members of a faith.

deptfreemoneytart

I have no inclination towards any religion whatsoever.
I think families are much more important.
Businesses should not be able to trade on ONE day a week, Sunday being the most convenient.
If people were to get themselves more organised then all the staff that are normally required to work on a Sunday could spend the day with their friends/families.
It would create a NO SPEND DAY, wouldn't that be great.
People would have to learn to cook again, wouldn't that be great.
Children wouldn't have to be dragged around shopping mall's, they could go out and play on one of their 2 days off a week. As an ex foster carer I know they would like that.
The repairs would get done in the house, the kids could help their parents around the house, this would teach them some skills for their future.
I used to be a shopkeeper, I know the importance of giving your kids your time, I couldn't, it matters.
So, in conclusion, and to stop me waffling. STOP all trading on a Sunday and this includes pubs.
Make Sunday a FAMILY DAY. Only a religious day for those who need it, but don't force it on the kids.
JC
(this doesn't stand for Jesus Christ, they just happen to be my initials).

POPPYOSCAR

deptfreemoneytart wrote: »

I have no inclination towards any religion whatsoever.
I think families are much more important.
Businesses should not be able to trade on ONE day a week, Sunday being the most convenient.
If people were to get themselves more organised then all the staff that are normally required to work on a Sunday could spend the day with their friends/families.
It would create a NO SPEND DAY, wouldn't that be great.
People would have to learn to cook again, wouldn't that be great.
Children wouldn't have to be dragged around shopping mall's, they could go out and play on one of their 2 days off a week. As an ex foster carer I know they would like that.
The repairs would get done in the house, the kids could help their parents around the house, this would teach them some skills for their future.
I used to be a shopkeeper, I know the importance of giving your kids your time, I couldn't, it matters.
So, in conclusion, and to stop me waffling. STOP all trading on a Sunday and this includes pubs.
Make Sunday a FAMILY DAY. Only a religious day for those who need it, but don't force it on the kids.
JC
(this doesn't stand for Jesus Christ, they just happen to be my initials).

I agree with all of this.

I also am not religious, but I think for every day to be the same is so boring. I like to have a day that is 'different'.

I personally do not like the 24/7 culture it just adds to the 'rat race' feeling for me.

JimmyTheWig

Never going to happen, "JC", but sounds wonderful!

RandomRainy

There should be no restrictions on trading hours. It would help raise employment levels and extra "therapy" time for people who do work 9-5 Mon-Fri. I also beleive this should cover bars & resturants too. Opening hours should be down to the establishment's discrestion. There'd be less haste and a more relaxed atmosphere, allowing religous days to be more restful!

I agree with what a lot of posts are saying though: There must be legislation protecting inviduals from being forced to work on religious days.

TBagpuss

wizzardmr42 wrote: »

I'd hope they don't end up in agreement - life is terribly dull when everyone thinks the same way!

Seriously though, I'm not sure I was really clear at the whole points in what I was saying.

1) The Sunday trading laws stem from Christian ideas about Sunday being a day of rest, but I would like to know what sort of restrictions Christians are actually supposed to have on not working on a Sunday - is there even any actual religious rule to prohibit it? (the detail I gave on Jewish restrictions on our Sabbath was to contrast that we do have very definite and well defined restrictions).

Not really. The 'rule' is based in the commandment to "keep the sabbath day holy" so it has the same root as the rules which govern Jewish observation, but there isn't a formal set of rules and restrictions, these have tended to be down to differing attitudes at different times, so have tended to stem more from indviduals or groups within the church, than being a formal set of rules. Those that there are have varied quite a lot over the years.

I believe that in the 18th C for instance, Sunday travel was very much frowned upon (I seem to recall from Austen's Persausion that one of the things which worries Anne Eliot about Mr Eliot was that 'Sunday travel had been a frequent thing', for instance). During the Industrial revolution and quite late into the Vicitorian period to was common for factories, shops and pubs to be open 7 days a week so strict observation of the 'no work on Sundays' rule was a luxury many couldn't afford

Most of the restrictions about closing times came from concerns about working hours / workers rights and are relatively new inventions. (In the same way, pub closing rules have more to do with concerns over productivity than about morals)

The rules also vary depending on denomination - for instance, the Presbyterian Church in Scotland, esp. in the Highlands tended to take a much stricter view (Still, I believe, objecting to any non-essential travel on a Sunday) and even within a denomination.

2) Is the official Christian approach that it is supposed to impose itself on everyone regardless of whether they are Christian or not? According to the CIA World Factbook, over 28% of people in the UK identify themselves as not Christian, so do Christians believe that their restrictions should apply to non-Christians?

I don't think that there is an 'official Christian approach'. I think that among Christians you would probably find that people may have different reasons for supporting a specific line. e.g so far as Sunday Opening is concerned, you would find some within the church who would oppsoe it because they feel this is a Christian country and therefore [their interpretation of] christian practice should govern the rules, some who would ooppose it for fear that practising Christians might be put in a poition where they have to work rather than observing the sabbath, some who just feel that a bit of a breach is good for eveyone, etc. I don't think there is a specific 'party line'
In so far as the 'Christian Approach' generally is concerned, unlike Judaism, conversion and prosthelysing are encouraged, although I have alsways undestood that this is supposed to be more by way of setting an example and by persauding people to join, rather than seeking to impose this. (although clearly that has not always been the line the Established Chursh has taken in the past)

I'm not really trying to get into the whole arguments of whether it is legally discriminatory or whether it is a good idea to have a universal day off work every week - I was really inquiring whether there is actually even a religious basis for it?

My view (as a non Christian who has spent a lot of time in and around churches, with religious christians and who has a strong interest in social history) is that there is, in so far as the reasons why it's Sunday is due to the fact that that is the sabbath for most christians, and indirectly due to the fact that a lot of the people who were instrumental in working for workers rights were religious and so were motivated at least in part by thier religious beliefs - so wanting workers to have the opportunity to attend church was part of the background thinking.

My personal view of the original question is that I think it is positive to have one day a week when there are restricted hours. I think it helps to redress the balance between small, local shops and huge supermarkts, and I think it is healthy for us all to have a break (I belie that there has been quite a lot of research which shows that shift workers and those who work irregular hours tend to have higher levels of illness than those who don't, so although this is essential for some workers, espe. emergency workers, I don't feel it is ideal. But my view that Sunday opening is OK as it is, and shouldn't be extended, has nothing to do with religion.

I'm also unconvined by the argument that Sunday opening is necessary to compete with online shopping, and that this is proven by the fact that Sunday is the busyest time for online shopping.

I do a fair amount of shopping online, and I do it when it's conveneient to me. I may shop on Sunday evening not becasue I've thought 'I can't go to the shop, I'll buy it onlne instead' (there's no point - other than downloads, I'm not going to get whatever I'm buying any faster, as it still needs delivering) it'll be just that that happens to be a convenient time for me to go online - 'm more likely to shop online when it's dark out, becaue I won't be out going for a walk or gardening, It doesn't mean I'd go shopping in town or at a mall at 11 p.m or 4 a.m.

I can't think of a single example of a time when I've bought something online rather than from a bricks-and-morter shop when the opening hours of the physical shop were even a passing consideration, never mind a reason to buy online.

fattybumble85

DaybreakGirl wrote: »

I am sick to death of this, Sunday Trading should be stopped everywhere, including the garages and small corner shops. There is plenty of time to go shopping Monday to Saturday. Family time should be Sunday and this forcing of people to have to work Sundays should stop it is unacceptable. I am not religious so it is not down to that.

What about those without families? Single person are on the rise in this country, approx 1.2 million by 2031. Why should these people, who no doubt work full time during the week, be denied the freedom to shop after 4pm on Sunday?

If the laws are in place for religious reasons why are the supermarkets in Ireland open until 9pm on Sunday nights? They don't seem to have a problem with it.

I'm an atheist so religious arguments have no relevance to me.

3010

Well, it is starting July 22nd 2012 for 8 weeks. He has just said in the budget.

scrimperdave

At the time I voted (about an hour ago) the total number of votes was 10679.

4757 votes to Allow the extension of hours - 45% of the vote.
4196 votes to retain existing hours - 39% of the vote.
1726 votes to prohibit Sunday trading - 16% of the vote.

If these figures are found to be representative of the nation's view, the hours should not be extended (outside the Olympic shop-fest which is already a done deal).

But I bet that under the current government, the wishes of the electorate are ignored (again - see NHS reform) and big business gets its way. Bang goes the limited peace and quiet for people living on main roads and around shopping centres.

Dave