Power of Attorney - how to apportion income for spouse

agrinnall

Hi OP, while I'm unsure whether your solicitior is correct that there should be a separate account for your dad (I'm inclined to think that Biggles is correct that a joint account is fine) what I would suggest is that your mum opens her own account, maybe a savings account, and transfers some of the money from the joint account to it so that if there is ever any issue operating the joint account then at least she has some money that she can access herself. It's not uncommon to find that when someone dies the surviving partner has great difficulty getting at money for a period after the death, and it's possible the same could happen in other circumstances too.

Biggles

agrinnall wrote: »

Hi OP, while I'm unsure whether your solicitior is correct that there should be a separate account for your dad (I'm inclined to think that Biggles is correct that a joint account is fine) what I would suggest is that your mum opens her own account, maybe a savings account, and transfers some of the money from the joint account to it so that if there is ever any issue operating the joint account then at least she has some money that she can access herself. It's not uncommon to find that when someone dies the surviving partner has great difficulty getting at money for a period after the death, and it's possible the same could happen in other circumstances too.

That's not a bad idea, agrinnall. But anyone doing this should not move any large sums of money into the new account, or the LA will point at it and utter the magic words 'Deprivation of Capital', at which point the money will disappear without trace. But I see no reason why she can't pay herself a modest monthly 'allowance', ostensibly to take care of her own expenses.

Sues48

We are in a similar position, Dad has dementia and all my parent's income is paid into their joint account which Mum has been operating without POA for the last two or three years. My brother and I have LPA for Dad but haven't used it as there hasn't been a need for it as all bills etc are in Mum's name. Dad is about to go into residential care after being discharged from hospital and will be full funded by CHC.

I was a little concerned that what my mum was doing might cause problems somewhere along the line if Social Services ever become involved in funding Dad's care and thought we may need to open a seperate account for Dad's pensions to be paid into, but my mum has sought advice from Age UK who have told her that this isn't necessary and we would only need to use the LPA if at any stage we need to contact the DWP or Dad's private pension provider.

Like one of the previous posters, the majority of my parent's income is in my Dad's name and without it my mum would struggle to keep the house running.

ruffles_3

Biggles wrote: »

That's not a bad idea, agrinnall. But anyone doing this should not move any large sums of money into the new account, or the LA will point at it and utter the magic words 'Deprivation of Capital', at which point the money will disappear without trace. But I see no reason why she can't pay herself a modest monthly 'allowance', ostensibly to take care of her own expenses.

Thanks both for these suggestions. Definitely some food for thought here.

ruffles_3

Sues48 wrote: »

We are in a similar position, Dad has dementia and all my parent's income is paid into their joint account which Mum has been operating without POA for the last two or three years. My brother and I have LPA for Dad but haven't used it as there hasn't been a need for it as all bills etc are in Mum's name. Dad is about to go into residential care after being discharged from hospital and will be full funded by CHC.

I was a little concerned that what my mum was doing might cause problems somewhere along the line if Social Services ever become involved in funding Dad's care and thought we may need to open a seperate account for Dad's pensions to be paid into, but my mum has sought advice from Age UK who have told her that this isn't necessary and we would only need to use the LPA if at any stage we need to contact the DWP or Dad's private pension provider.

Like one of the previous posters, the majority of my parent's income is in my Dad's name and without it my mum would struggle to keep the house running.

I'm sorry to hear about your dad, but thank you for sharing this. It's extremely helpful. I think because we were told off (nicely but firmly) by a solicitor who was experienced in this area, I thought we'd done something wrong. The fact that Age UK have advised differently is very helpful to know.

FWIW, I've read several horror stories (on the internet, it must be said, so take that with the requisite grain of salt) of people in England and Wales who don't have POA suddenly finding that a joint bank account has been frozen if the bank in question learns that the other account holder is mentally incapacitated. This has allegedly happened to the point of people not being permitted access to money even for food and heating expenses until it was sorted out. It might be something for you to consider re your mum's operation of the joint account; I'm not sure quite how it would work if she doesn't have POA for your dad, but at least making sure she has access to money elsewhere just in case might be a thought (apologies if I'm telling you how to suck eggs here).

And yes, your last paragraph summarises precisely the problem we face with divvying up the income - Mum still somehow has to feed and clothe herself and keep the house, half of which is Dad's running, when she has no private pension.

ruffles_3

agrinnall wrote: »

Hi OP, while I'm unsure whether your solicitior is correct that there should be a separate account for your dad (I'm inclined to think that Biggles is correct that a joint account is fine) what I would suggest is that your mum opens her own account, maybe a savings account, and transfers some of the money from the joint account to it so that if there is ever any issue operating the joint account then at least she has some money that she can access herself. It's not uncommon to find that when someone dies the surviving partner has great difficulty getting at money for a period after the death, and it's possible the same could happen in other circumstances too.

I'm not sure where your quote disappeared to from the front of Biggles's quoted comment earlier, but I did want to thank you for this suggestion and the thoughts re continuing to use the joint account. With Biggles's caveat re avoiding the deprivation of capital, this sounds like a really good suggestion.

sleepless_saver

I had a look at the government's good practice guidance on power of attorney (it's on directgov).

"Duty to keep the donor’s money and property separate
7.68 Property and affairs attorneys should usually keep the donor’s money
and property separate from their own or anyone else’s. There may be
occasions where donors and attorneys have agreed in the past to keep
their money in a joint bank account (for example, if a husband is acting
as his wife’s attorney). It might be possible to continue this under
the LPA. But in most circumstances, attorneys must keep finances
separate to avoid any possibility of mistakes or confusion. "

Obviously this separation is not practical for the OP as the money needs to be used for household expenses, which is what happened before he became ill. As long as she continues to keep careful records, it's hard to see why there would be a problem.

She could phone the Office of the Public Guardian 0300 456 0300 for advice (no idea how helpful they are but they are the definitive authority on this, and cheaper than a solicitor!).