Housemate from HELL - Advice really appreciated!

bananaphone44

Writing this on a massive adrenaline rush after such a horrific week so I will try and keep this concise! In tears and shaking right now...

Long story short, I moved into a property with a tenant from absolute hell. Assured Shorthold Tenancy, both of our names on the contract. Drug-dealing, stealing scum of the earth. At the time I was in a bad job and could NOT afford to move out whatsoever as well as being bullied so much I was so worn down and didn't think I could do better. Housemate got a job in another city, claimed to have moved out in January. In reality, they were coming back to the house and slowly moving stuff out as well as slowly stealing a lot of my stuff. They left the property in an absolute state and damaged a lot of the communal areas. They also turned out to have NOT paid any of the gas and electric and landed this on me recently. They also did not give their month's notice in time, and they're trying to sue the estate agent for them rightfully taking the missing rent money up till the end of the month out of the deposit.

This week (after getting a new lovely job and arranging to move closer to work), I get a text from the housemate's mother, who said she had the keys and would be coming around. At this point I had had ENOUGH of my things going for a wander and no correspondence whatsoever regarding the unpaid bills and informed her that I was not happy with her coming into the house while I was not there and also that I wanted to be present.

Things got horrific very quickly. I received an absolutely awful email from the housemate to my work email (who got this because the estate agent copied me into an email addressed to her regarding the end of the tenancy). It was the most threatening thing I'd ever read and burst into tears. I did NOT feel safe going back to the house that night as her mother was also saying she would be waiting for me outside the house and she'd take legal action. I forwarded this to my estate agent who was NOT happy. They emailed her regarding this threat and also recommended that I reported this to the police, which I did.

I was escorted back to the house, where I proceeded to clean my room and the communal areas. My housemate had left a LOT of her stuff so I put it all in her room and took photos. I then left that property to go to work and handed in the keys to the estate agent.

This evening I have had another text from my housemate threatening legal action against the damages that she has made and her stuff left in her room!! They are saying that they will send it to my work address and chase me through small claims court. I'm so exhausted at this point and I am very worried. I've made an appointment to speak to a police officer regarding everything, have kept all threatening texts and emails. Legally, where do I stand? Even though she has claimed to have moved out, she has held onto those keys for months and caused so much drama!! :eek: And they paid the deposit in full!

DVardysShadow

The beauty of small claims is that you get the claimants address and you also get the opportunity to put in your own counterclaim. And her mother has no say in proceedings if you get taken to court.

Start gathering your evidence of having paid her your share of gas and electricity.

G_M

I would not take the threats of small claims court by housemate or mother seriously.

More relevant is the current status of your tenancy - I am unclear. You seem to also be moving out/have moved out. I note the agent appears sympathetic (which is good) but has your tenancy actually ended? Has the LL/agent accepted that the tenancy is over?

Was it in the fixed Term still?
Or was it (month by month ) periodic?
Was notice given to the LL and if so by who? On what date? how long was the notice?

I ask all this because you have a 'joint and several' tenancy, so any ongoing responsibility for rent, damage, bills etc can (and probobly will) fall on you (a drug takig co-tenant who has moved out is not likely to be a good target for the LL/agent to retrieve these debts from!).

So any agreement you have (in writing) to end the tenancy is important.

Having police involvement (and a crime reference number?) is a good step. Keep records of everything.

If the tenancy has NOT ended, the the co-tenant still has access rights unfortunately and he is perfectly at liberty to invite his mother round.

Do you have friends/relatives you can invite round fo support?

If the co-tenat 'paid the deposit in full' that is good. Do you mean the entire deposit for the property (ie you have contributed nothing to the deposit?) or do you mean their 'share' (ie you each paid 50%)?

Keep in contact with the landlord and agent about all this. Their support/help may be very helpful (especially with any rent arrears, debts etc).

I seriously doubt if you have anything to fear from the courts so far as these idiots are concerned. The theft and intimidation is more worrying - keep the police involved. If you think there may be drugs in the co-tenants room, ask the police to search - you do NOT want to be in any way involved in this.

bananaphone44

Sorry, I was running on empty before! Had a really long sleep and it's cleared my head a lot.

The tenancy runs until next Friday. It was supposed to end today, but due to her NOT giving her month's notice in time the estate agent has charged her for another week and have been chasing her for remaining payment. The only reason I found out she hadn't was due to an earlier incident where her mother had tried to access the house while I wasn't in (I always bolted the front door, I was on my own in that property and I had started to realise WHERE my stuff was going). Her mother and the tenant rang the agency to complain when they turned around and pointed that they had not received her notice. I had given mine well in advance in person and as the agency explained to me, the nature of the contract is that even if one person follows the contract and conditions perfectly, if the other person damages the property or does not pay rent then they will take it out of the deposit. They have also said that the final checks will be on that Friday. I would go but to be honest? I really REALLY do not want to be around her or her mother. I'm absolutely terrified.

EDIT: Notice period as well, the manager came round to the house himself as after I'd rang him in tears about my stuff going missing and the notice period he had spoken to the landlord and they both agreed that I could move out whenever I wanted.

Regarding the deposit, she paid 100% of it. When she had supposedly "moved out" she never handed her keys in! Would this still make her liable for the condition of the house? I had reported damages to the estate agent that she had caused. When I moved out I made sure that my room was clean and the communal areas. I think what made her flip (and perhaps this wasnt the best idea) was that ALL of the stuff she had dumped in random places, I'd put in her room as it was hers. The agent explicitly said that they would go straight for the deposit regarding outstanding rent and damages as well...she's at fault for the notice and the damages.

A lot of it is a case of my word against hers. It's why I haven't reported her to the police regarding the theft as essentially it is just petty items such as food and clothing. She has done me a favour since it only took 30 minutes to pack up and go! The only thing I have reported is that which I have PHYSICAL evidence of.

The last text that she sent me, she claims she's sending to her solictor and explicitly states that "calling the police is pointless, they will laugh at your pettiness".

Regarding the gas and electric bills, she also couldn't get her story straight. She's essentially contacted the provider, opened the account from the day we moved in with only MY name on it which means they will be chasing me for the debt. But I may need to make another thread for that!

One last thing is that the initial threatening email? She sent it from her work email. It worries me that she's getting paid to threaten me and make me feel too scared to leave the house!

EDIT: And one last edit (so sorry Moderators!) I am safe. In a new house, closer to work. With a nice girl who has made so many cups of tea and cake for me. And the ex housemate doesnt know where I live. Just where I work, so I will have a private word with my boss about this as my main concern is that she, her mother or her "solicitor" will ring, email and send letters to me using this information...I don't want my colleagues to think badly of me because of this

G_M

OK, lets start with the legalities of the tenancy (and then come to the negotiated agreement with the agents later):

You started by saying:

Assured Shorthold Tenancy, both of our names on the contract.

so there is a single tenancy. It cannot end on one date for you and another date for co-tenant. Either the tenancy ends (for you both) on next Friday, or it ends today (for you both), or it ended when co tenant gave notice.moved out (for you both).
You do not have separate tenancies (unless you have misinformed us).

You also say:

It was supposed to end today

Do you mean the original fixed term had an end date of today? What is the start date on the tenancy? What is the end date? If the fixed term was due to end today, then NO notice is needed by either of you. Provided you both move out, the tenancy will end.

However, if the tenancy is Periodic (monthly) the Notice IS needed, hence my earlier question (unanswered)

Was notice given to the LL and if so by who? On what date? how long was the notice?

Having said all that, if the LL/agent is willing to agree to you leaving on some other random date, either with or without the co-tenant also leaving,

he had spoken to the landlord and they both agreed that I could move out whenever I wanted.

then that is an agreement you can make. But I would get it confirmed IN WRITING because as shown above the tenancy may still legally continue, with rent due, and since you are both 'jointly and severally' liable, you are legally liable for the FULL rent and ALL damages.

Regarding the deposit, she paid 100% of it. When she had supposedly "moved out" she never handed her keys in! Would this still make her liable for the condition of the house?

Both she, and you, continue to be liable for the entire rent, and the damages, until the tenancy ends. The tenancy cannot end till
1) the fixed term ends and you both move out or
2) proper Notice has been given AND you both move out or
2) an Early Surrender of the tenancy is agreed (and confirmed in writing) between the LL and the tenants (and you both move out)

Clearly the LL will make deductions from the deposit - fortunately the deposit was not paid by you.

Regarding the gas and electric bills, she also couldn't get her story straight. She's essentially contacted the provider, opened the account from the day we moved in with only MY name on it which means they will be chasing me for the debt.

No one can set up a contract in another person's name. Contact the utility suppliers urgently and inform them you never set up these accounts. If they do not accept this ask them to provide either
1) a contract with your signature on it or
2) a telephone recording of your conversation in which you set up the account.

Do this initially by phone (and note the date/time and name of the conversation) then follow up with a letter confirming everything.
Deny responsibility for the account. Give them the name of the person who you believe may have fraudulently set up the account. It is then their problem to investigate and hopefully they will end up chasing your co-tenant fo the bills.

As said before - ignore her threats of court action. Ignore

claims she's sending to her solictor and explicitly states that "calling the police is pointless, they will laugh at your pettiness".

this is just hot air not even worth responding to.

bananaphone44

Speak of the devil, I've had more contact from both of them. Will get to that in a second...

G_M wrote: »

Both she, and you, continue to be liable for the entire rent, and the damages, until the tenancy ends. The tenancy cannot end till
1) the fixed term ends and you both move out or
2) proper Notice has been given AND you both move out or
2) an Early Surrender of the tenancy is agreed (and confirmed in writing) between the LL and the tenants (and you both move out)

Clearly the LL will make deductions from the deposit - fortunately the deposit was not paid by you.

^^^^ Okay, this has really helped reassure me!

The tenancy began on 17th September 2011 and was due to end March 17th 2012. A month's notice to either stay in the property and "extend" the contract (so to speak) or to leave was required in writing as per the contract. I gave my notice to the estate agency in advance in January in writing and handed it in person (the letter stated that I would be moving out on the 17th March as per the last day of the contract). My housemate gave her notice on the February 20th, she threatened legal action against the estate agents (since this somehow meant sufficient notice in her world?). The EA said that the tenancy would end March 22nd and the final checks would be on that day.

Now ex-housemate and her mother are sticking to the fact that since she "moved out", she isn't responsible for the damages, the oustanding rent and the mess she left and I HAVE to pay. Ahem. What? :rotfl: Can she even prove that she apparently left the house clinically clean, replastered all of the holes she made in the walls, cleaned up the dried cat vomit and mess, moved all of her furniture and stuff out? :rotfl:

So yes, I know what I will be doing Monday morning. Going in person first thing...getting EVERYTHING in writing! I'm quite fortunate that the EA have been very helpful and supportive regarding this.

G_M

bananaphone44 wrote: »

Speak of the devil, I've had more contact from both of them. Will get to that in a second...



^^^^ Okay, this has really helped reassure me!

The tenancy began on 17th September 2011 and was due to end March 17th 2012. Unusual - are those dates on the contract? Or is it 17th Sept for 6 months? If so, it ends on 16th March not 17th.

A month's notice to either stay in the property and "extend" the contract (so to speak) or to leave was required in writing as per the contract. This contract term is unenforcible.
1) No notice at all is needed to move out at the end of the fixed term.
2) Nor is notice needed to sign a new contract (extend). A new tenancy agreement can be signed at any time provided both sides agree.
3) To move from a Fixed Term to a Periodic tenancy, again, no notice is needed - it happens automatically by law if you stay beyond the fixed term.

I gave my notice to the estate agency in advance in January in writing and handed it in person (the letter stated that I would be moving out on the 17th March as per the last day of the contract). Good manners, polite, helpful, but legally unecessary My housemate gave her notice on the February 20th, she threatened legal action against the estate agents legal action for what? Not that it matters as it is hot air. (since this somehow meant sufficient notice in her world?). The EA said that the tenancy would end March 22nd and the final checks would be on that day. Do you have this in writing? If not, see 3) above!

Now ex-housemate and her mother are sticking to the fact that since she "moved out", she isn't responsible for the damages, the oustanding rent and the mess she left and I HAVE to pay. Not your problem - the agent has her deposit and will use this to cover damage and rent. The co-tenant cannot end the tenancy before th fixed term ends (March 16th or 17th unless the LL/agent/ and YOU all agree (see 'Early Surrender' in my previous post)
Ahem. What? :rotfl: Can she even prove that she apparently left the house clinically clean, replastered all of the holes she made in the walls, cleaned up the dried cat vomit and mess, moved all of her furniture and stuff out? :rotfl:Does not matter as the tenancy has not ended. She may have moved out but she is still a tenant - there is no law saying she has to live in the property she rents, but she does have to pay rent and pay for damages....

So yes, I know what I will be doing Monday morning. Going in person first thing...getting EVERYTHING in writing! I'm quite fortunate that the EA have been very helpful and supportive regarding this.

Just ignore the co-tenant and all her threats, claims and hot air - most if this is the LL/agent's problem since that is who she has a contract with. And luckily the LL has the co-tenant's deposit. Not your fight so don't get involved.

Unfortunately today is the 18th, so your fixed term has expired. You now have a monthly Periodic Tenancy (see 3) above). There are two ways to end this:

1) give a months notice (no, your previous notice during the fixed term does not count!) ending with a rental period. You rentalperiods run from 17th to 16th of each month (or 18th to 17th depending which date you fixed term actually ended - see above) so notice served on, say Monday 19th would run from April 17th andend on May 16th.

2) or by Early Surrender - you will need to reach an amicable agreement with the LL to end earlier (ie March 22nd). GET THIS IN WRITING. Otherwise you could be liable till 16th (or 17th) May.

RedfordML

Sounds like an awful situation. Loads of good advice so will keep my reply short...

1st thing I would be doing is deleting the 'works email address/account' that they keep sending the threats through, open a new works email.

I would also speak to the EA and confirm that you do not want ANY contact details put on any emails sent to other party...

Good Luck with it and hope you get a positive outcome...

Yorkie1

I can't add to G_M's excellent advice re the tenancy issues.

Make sure you keep any emails or texts from her. You can go to the police and report her for harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act, which makes it an offence to pursue a course of conduct (i.e. do 2 or more separate acts) which causes you harassment and which she knows / ought to know amounts to harassment of you.

The only defence available to her is that her conduct was reasonable, which it clearly isn't.

The police may say that it is a civil matter but they would be wrong. Although it may arise from a set of civil facts, the conduct itself is capable of constituting harassment and therefore an offence.

I would expect the police to warn her explicitly about her behaviour. If she then does it again, she would potentially be liable for arrest and prosecution.

debrag

bananaphone44 wrote: »

Speak of the devil, I've had more contact from both of them. Will get to that in a second...



^^^^ Okay, this has really helped reassure me!

The tenancy began on 17th September 2011 and was due to end March 17th 2012. A month's notice to either stay in the property and "extend" the contract (so to speak) or to leave was required in writing as per the contract. I gave my notice to the estate agency in advance in January in writing and handed it in person (the letter stated that I would be moving out on the 17th March as per the last day of the contract). My housemate gave her notice on the February 20th, she threatened legal action against the estate agents (since this somehow meant sufficient notice in her world?). The EA said that the tenancy would end March 22nd and the final checks would be on that day.

Now ex-housemate and her mother are sticking to the fact that since she "moved out", she isn't responsible for the damages, the oustanding rent and the mess she left and I HAVE to pay. Ahem. What? :rotfl: Can she even prove that she apparently left the house clinically clean, replastered all of the holes she made in the walls, cleaned up the dried cat vomit and mess, moved all of her furniture and stuff out? :rotfl:

So the ex-housemate knew the tenancy ended 17th March but left early and hasn't paid the rent up to the 17th March? Or did she think the tenancy ended earlier & hasn't paid up to 22nd March.

CharlieBubble

bananaphone44 wrote: »

One last thing is that the initial threatening email? She sent it from her work email. It worries me that she's getting paid to threaten me and make me feel too scared to leave the house!

Do some brief research on her workplace and email/write to her boss, including her full email. She should only be using her work email for work purposes. I'm sure her boss wouldn't be too happy to know that the company IT systems are being used to threaten people via email, not to mention the name of the company being brought into such a situation. Inform him that you have been to the police and they are dealing with the issue.