Financial Industry think their clients are "muppets"?

dunstonh

i think if you had 500k and wanted tax advice you would go to a tax accountant, or maybe even a specialised trust lawyer, but not an IFA.

What makes you think an accountant is qualified to know. I deal with a few accountants (as most IFAs do) and they are fine on areas within their remit but not outside (as you would expect).

and you certainly wouldn't give them 10k a year.

And you wouldnt give an IFA that either. Do you just make figures up for fun?

Neverland

darkpool wrote: »

by "slag off" you mean present a different viewpoint other than "go onto unbiased.co.uk and get an IFA"?

Careful thats the talk of a dangerous lunatic..

darkpool

dunstonh wrote: »

What makes you think an accountant is qualified to know. I deal with a few accountants (as most IFAs do) and they are fine on areas within their remit but not outside (as you would expect).

And you wouldnt give an IFA that either. Do you just make figures up for fun?

yeah, maybe a high street accountant isn't clued up on tax evasion. but for a lot of the big firms tax evasion is a speciality.

ehhhmm the average IFA punter with 500k is likely to be giving away 10k away in fees each year to the financial industry.

darkpool

Neverland wrote: »

Careful thats the talk of a dangerous lunatic..

LOL! I'll be getting called a troll soon.

cloud_dog

darkpool wrote: »

i think if you had 500k and wanted tax advice you would go to a tax accountant, or maybe even a specialised trust lawyer, but not an IFA.

and you certainly wouldn't give them 10k a year.

So, now you're ok with paying someone for expertise (IFA, accountant, Tax adviser)......... Interesting.

dunstonh

ehhhmm the average IFA punter with 500k is likely to be giving away 10k away in fees each year to the financial industry.

Can you make your mind up who is getting this hypothetical money?

GeorgeHowell

Jegersmart wrote: »

This is very naive and misinformed. GS got help in many places to survive - a lot of the people at the Fed and other institiutions are ex GS and vice versa. GS got paid 100 cents on the dollar on their CDS's at AIG and the taxpayer footed the bill. There are many other examples, please ensure that you do some research before writing stuff like this, also on how the system works. I am happy to discuss this in more detail, and I don't mean any offence - but seriously....

J

If you want to maintain credibility I would suggest not posting such pompous "I know better then you" stuff as this. Nobody does research before posting on forums as a matter of course. We all read the papers etc and we all know which end is up (or down).

brasso

Neverland wrote: »

There is no debate the maths speaks for itself.........

"There is no debate". Those words tell me a lot. There certainly is a debate to be had.

Suppose this was a forum for car mechanics, most of them hobbyists, with a few professionals lurking. I could imagine the community rubbing along pretty well, bound by a shared enthusiasm.

But I can also imagine, in among them, the odd disgruntled amateur enthusiast, complaining like hell about the way the pros and the big dealerships rip off the ignorant punter, and urging that self same ignorant punter (who won't even be reading, as he has no interest in car maintenance) to do all the work himself, thereby saving a shedload of cash.

The professional mechanics would protest that many people prefer to deal with them, even if it costs extra, as they feel more confident giving the work to a specialist who is bound by a code of conduct etc.

When it comes to car maintenance, I am that ignorant punter. I worked out recently that over the last few years I have paid out an average of £600 a year on servicing, tyre changes, the occasional bit of paintwork damage etc.

Think about it. £600! Now using the example given by Which?, if I decided to do all my car maintenance myself, and become an enthusiast, going round the salvage yards and eBay, collecting parts and tyres etc, and investing that £600 with the same annual rate of growth given by Which? -- 6% -- then over 20 years I could have a handy pot of £23, 395.

So there you have it. The motor industry is ripping me off, stealing £23,395 off me.

Except for one detail. I really, really can't be bothered learning how to service my car so that I can spend interminable hours in my garage and in scrapyards, when I could be having a life instead. £23K? Over 20 years, it's worth it to have someone else do all that horrible, complicated, boring stuff.

And you know, there are millions of people out there (many, no doubt, excellent mechanics) who feel a bit the same way about the long hours that IFAs, fund managers, and yes, inhabitants of the Savings & Investments forum, spend up to their elbows in financial grease and spreadsheets and the financial pages of the broadsheets.

darkpool

cloud_dog wrote: »

So, now you're ok with paying someone for expertise (IFA, accountant, Tax adviser)......... Interesting.

i've no problem with going to a professional for advice, however it does seem to be that by going to an IFA you get sold products that a reasonably intelligent person who has done some research would not invest in themselves.

i think the evidence that actively managed funds do not work is overwhelming, as such it makes more sense for investors to put most of their money into trackers and direct holdings.

but it seems most IFAs suggest active UTs and investment bonds - things with annual charges well over 2%. I can't think of many other industries where customers pay for advice and end up in a worse position than someone who hasn't paid for advice.

darkpool

dunstonh wrote: »

Can you make your mind up who is getting this hypothetical money?

i think the average reader of this thread knows that most UTs have a TER of circa 1.7%, portfolio costs are likely to be at least 0.3%. Do you really think the average consumer cares where this 2% goes to? He just cares his portfolio is getting reduced by 2% a year, for no obvious benefit.