MSE News: Rent payments to go on your credit file

plumber2009

Experian_company_representative wrote: »

encouraging consumers to check their own data is an important part of this work and, I'd suggest, something we all need to get used to in a data-driven world.

James Jones

How about you stop charging £70 a year then for us to access our own data as well as also stop charging £6 a time for useless credit scores.


I would also appreciate being notified as to when the £70 payment will be taken in advance rather than me log into internet banking to find a payment has been taken without prior consent.


OHH and where is the cancel membership button?

millym

The point remains that I have little faith in most private LLs and LAs ability to record accurate data (apologies to all the good LLs out there).

Given the hassle I had getting the numpties at Welcome Finance to fix my credit report, this just seems like it could be more trouble than it's worth for me. Welcome had me marked down as an 8 (defaulted account) on Experian when I had been overpaying every month, paid the balance off early and they had the cheek to take an extra repayment which I never got back.

My own bank started reporting my current account on Experian, but with the incorrect date of birth I contacted Experian, who put a note on my file and contacted my bank. This still has not been sorted and I never got a reply to my last email..

I really don't need any more mistakes on my file.

Thrugelmir

tbs624 wrote: »

You miss the point. Previously within one of the 2 threads there was the suggestion from James Jones that this new proposal would make the application process cheaper for Ts, when the reality is that {edit : it} is extremely unlikely that this would be the case.

Then the PR's wrong. However in running a business credit checking is a useful tool. Been in existance well before the major agencies came to these shores.

princeofpounds

I really don't need any more mistakes on my file.

Tell me about it. I have something like 47 linked addresses on their file because their system can't tell the difference between "no 4, main road" and "number 4, pounds mews, main rd" (I paraphrase; the problem is a little more complex but that's the essence of it).

This has caused me no end of troubles, getting turned down for products because the bank couldn't reconcile my address with my record. In fact Experian have benefitted greatly from the mess they caused because of the fees I had to stump up to get hold of the data and so on.

I do agree with the idea of credit checking for debt products (not tenancies), but it becomes something of a protection racket when the cost of mistakes always seems to be borne by the ordinary citizen. If I publish misleading information about someone's financial status I can get sued for libel or slander, but when Experian does it they seem to have no real liability.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

princeofpounds wrote: »

I do agree with the idea of credit checking for debt products (not tenancies), .

Why do you differentiate?

The ability to pay is surely as important for rent as it is for a mortgage.....

As at the end of the day that rent probably is paying a mortgage.

Just someone else's mortgage, not yours.

princeofpounds

Why do you differentiate?

I summarised before, but to be clear:

1) licensed lending firms are regulated, with accountability before the FSA and FSO for any mistakes they make. Many landlords are just private individuals with no accountability, and a significant minority also have questionable ethics and could use credit report powers to intimidate tenants. As I mentioned, this is basically giving control of your credit standing to Billy Smith down the pub.

2) adherence to a credit agreement is straightforward; you pay or you don't. A tenancy is legally far more complex- it has similarities in terms of being an ongoing fixed liability, but there is more to it than that. One example pointed out is that it is legal to deduct rent for self-imposed repair enforcement under Lee Parker vs Izzet 1971. Experian's system would not be able to handle this (not least because the landlord by definition would dispute the deduction even if he never challenged it in court), and would therefore deprive tenants of a civil protection.

3) I sincerely doubt the ability of a credit agency to properly manage data self-submitted by thousands of private individuals of varying competence and motivations. They make enough of a mess when it comes to professional financial institutions as it is, but at least the correction process with such institutions is not entirely arbitrary, even if it is not really that good.

4) more of a point of principle; housing is a basic human necessity, credit isn't. Such a system has the potential, in making mistakes or misjudgments, to deprive innocent people of a basic human necessity.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

princeofpounds wrote: »

Many landlords are just private individuals with no accountability, and a significant minority also have questionable ethics and could use credit report powers to intimidate tenants.

I would disagree with your assumption that a significant minority have questionable ethics.

Of course there will be a few people with questionable ethics, as indeed there are in every business sector including regulated ones, but there is absolutely no evidence that the private rented sector is more corrupt than any other.

Would I be surprised if a percent or two of landlords had "questionable ethics"? Well, no, probably not....

But we also know through agency statistics that 10% or so of tenants are in arrears at any given time, and many more do not properly take care of properties and/or return them in an unfit state.

I would suggest the "dodgy tenant" issue is a significantly bigger problem for and cost to society than the "dodgy landlord" issue, and given the fact that far too many tenants treat their landlord as an "unauthorised overdraft facility", the inclusion of rent in credit reports will go some way towards correcting that problem.

adherence to a credit agreement is straightforward; you pay or you don't.

As is adherence to a rental contract the vast majority of the time.

A tenancy is legally far more complex- it has similarities in terms of being an ongoing fixed liability, but there is more to it than that. One example pointed out is that it is legal to deduct rent for self-imposed repair enforcement under Lee Parker vs Izzet 1971.

The number of people who actually end up having to withhold rent over repairs disputes is vanishingly small.

And it surely can't be outside the ability of man (or Experian for that matter) to design a process which accounts for this tiny number of cases.

3) I sincerely doubt the ability of a credit agency to properly manage data self-submitted by thousands of private individuals of varying competence and motivations. They make enough of a mess when it comes to professional financial institutions as it is, but at least the correction process with such institutions is not entirely arbitrary, even if it is not really that good.

Then perhaps a more robust corrections process for rent reporting errors needs to be factored in to Experian's thinking.

But that's no reason to throw out the baby with the bath water.

more of a point of principle; housing is a basic human necessity, credit isn't. Such a system has the potential, in making mistakes or misjudgments, to deprive innocent people of a basic human necessity.

Housing is a commercial service like any other. Laws already exist to protect tenants against abuse, and provide shelter to the homeless. But nobody has a right to pay the rent late or default on a tenancy agreement just because housing is also a basic human necessity. Therefore landlords should be able to use credit reporting information to improve their business decisions and reduce risk for themselves and others.

If your concern is that the corrections process for mistakes or misjudgements is not robust enough, then argue for the corrections process to be improved.... Not for the scheme to be scrapped.

tbs624

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

But we also know through agency statistics that 10% or so of tenants are in arrears at any given time, and many more do not properly take care of properties and/or return them in an unfit state.

Perhaps Hamish needs to understand how those stats are arrived at and why they can't be seen as a truthful overall picture. The LAs sample their own chains, their listed rental properties only and the LL associations sample their own membership. Neither of those categories adequately represent *all* rental properties: they don't even include a 100% response rate from their own sample.

It's likely that the highest arrears figures will be within the social housing sector but that's not where Experian is looking to flog its "this will help tenants" package, from what has been said so far.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I would suggest the "dodgy tenant" issue is a significantly bigger problem for and cost to society than the "dodgy landlord" issue, and given the fact that far too many tenants treat their landlord as an "unauthorised overdraft facility", the inclusion of rent in credit reports will go some way towards correcting that problem.

Any evidence for your assertion? At a very basic level one dodgy LL may have many Ts, which means that s/he has the opportunity of breaching his/her obligations to many people.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The number of people who actually end up having to withhold rent over repairs disputes is vanishingly small.

Perhaps Hamish could tell us more on how s/he arrived at his/her opinion? Any facts there?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Housing is a commercial service like any other. Laws already exist to protect tenants against abuse, and provide shelter to the homeless.

Hamish is right that some laws do already exist - unfortunately the application of them is often lacking and LL& T law has not, of course, kept pace with changes over the past 20-25 years

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

...... landlords should be able to use credit reporting information to improve their business decisions and reduce risk for themselves and others.

As has been said, LLs are already able to do that.

AshtonBRSC

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The number of people who actually end up having to withhold rent over repairs disputes is vanishingly small.

And it surely can't be outside the ability of man (or Experian for that matter) to design a process which accounts for this tiny number of cases.

I would imagine the number of people withholding rent is very low because it is a step that people shouldn't have to take. I would feel I was putting my tenancy at risk (and future references from the landlord) if I actually went through with withholding the rent. I would probably just try to find somewhere else to move to.

Unfortunately since the number of cases is so low, there is little incentive for Experian to do much about these cases just like when there is an inaccuracy with the current information on credit files.

bondabout

"It's likely that the highest arrears figures will be within the social housing sector but that's not where Experian is looking to flog its "this will help tenants" package, from what has been said so far."

Actually you are wrong! Experian have worked closely with 'Big Issue Invest'. Big Issue did some research and found that around 30% of social tenants (1.5million) could be affected by improvements in credit decisions if rent payment data were shared.The analysis found that rent payment data sharing would significantly improve tenants ability to pass electronic authentication and identity checks which are routinely used to access financial and other services. They found that 40% of tenants would currently fail electronic identity check but would pass if rent data were included.

The 'big issue' invest key finding and recommendation was that social and housing associations should routinely share their rent payment data to improve the fairness and effectiveness of credit decisions for social tenants.

So granted who would believe a commercial organization such as Experian, but if you won't believe the 'big issue', there is no hope.

No I do not work for Experian or Big Issue Invest.

Go take a look at 'big issue invest', they undertook a serious project to prove the above.:rotfl: