A question for all you accountants. Industry vs Practice?

accountingbod

Good morning

I hope this is the right place to post.

I currently work in an accountancy role within industry as a management accountant. I have two exams left on ACCA until i am qualified. I earn 28k a year and have private medical insurance and a non-contributory pension plus 25 days holiday a year.

I have been approached by a practice firm who want me to go for an interview tomorrow with respect to a job.

Eventually i wanted to work in practice so that i could get my practice certificate to open up my own business. If i went in to practice i would be more interested in tax consultancy and planning and small business returns and advice. Basically, not audit!

My question is, is there anyone out there who made the jump from industry to practice and how did they find it?

I enjoy the company i work for but there is no progression here unfortunately as it is small and sometimes the repetition in an industry role can be tedious. Does this repetition change when you progress in industry?

I feel like i'm at a crossroads. Any advice from people who have done it? I just feel a bit worried that practice work may leave me feeling 'outside' of the action having come from an industry position.

Thanks

Emmzi

I can't answer that but as an HR person I suggest you start by looking at current contract for clauses re: clawback of education costs.

accountingbod

Thanks Emmzi. My agreement on training is that once i pass an exam the tuition fees are then reduced over time to zero after 18 months. I would have some to pay off should i want to leave but i was hoping to negotiate with any potentially new employer that they contribute to the fees as bought in goodwill

heretolearn_2

I haven't done it myself but taking on people from in-house to practice I've seen them go through it, and experienced it as their employer.

There is a big adjustment to make but most seem to enjoy it as 'there is always something different every day'. If you like the idea of that, then it would be a good move. If that terrifies you, then it won't be.

the hardest things for people to adapt to seem to be:

a) multiple challenges on time - prioritising work when you have 10 clients all wanting something. This is different to prioritising work you are doing for your own company, as while different depts. etc in your firm may all want to be your number one, they do accept that something else you do instead is still for your firm's good. A client won't feel that way if they have to wait. You have to find a way to deal with all of them in turn without upsetting anyone.

b) Handling clients. You not only have all the usual need for tact/negotiation etc within your firm, you also have to deal with clients. Some of whom can be extremely demanding/difficult. This is the hardest part, I've found, for most people who switch over. They find it frustrating at times and to be good in practice you HAVE to have excellent people skills. A common problem in our newbie switchers is lack of the right type of communication with clients at the right time in the right way. Customer service skills, if you like.

c)Having to think on your feet more. You never know what's going to turn up. You have to be able to make decisions and solve problems. You have to frequently deal with inadequate, incomplete and incorrect records without being able to say to the person 'this is not correct, you'll have to re-do it' as you might in an in-house situation. If you have a client who proudly presents you with bookkeeping that is simply incorrect you have to make sure you don't get sucked into doing it again/making corrections as that is not what your firm is getting paid for, while giving them enough advice that they can sort it out, without offending them by criticising their bookkeeping skills, or otherwise negotiate an additional fee with them for your firm to do it.

Some people love it. Some people hate it.

I'd say it's the soft skills - people skills - that make all the difference. Can you learn to turn an unhappy client (usually some big misunderstanding) into a happy one by spending half an hour chatting with them? Can you explain a technical issue to someone with no clue about accounts?

I think you have the scope to learn about a lot more in practice, which is good for your career, and you need the two years to get your certificate anyway, so why not?

MoneySavingUser

Congratulations on being offered the interview!

You are actually doing the opposite of what most people do i.e. most people train in practice and then move to industry! However some people do go the other way aswell though this is generally considered to the harder transition.

As already mentioned clawback is an issue - but as you say a lot of new employers are willing to help out with this - make sure to check with the new practice what the arrangements would be for doing the final 2 exams and how much study leave you will be given.

Also check how many attempts at the exams you are allowed - generally practice firms are less tolerant of failures i.e. in a practice firm you can be dismissed for failing once whereas at some industry firms I know of people who have sat the same exams 4 times or more (of course if you have all first time passed then you probably don't need to worry about this).

Also which exams do you have left - I assume you have a choice from P4 to P7 - 2 of these - Tax and Audit are better for practice the others PM and FM are better for industry - have you already decided which ones you are doing? or started studying?

As you want to go into tax ask if they would be willing to fund you to study for something like CTA after your ACCA is complete.

In terms of progress I have a friend who started at an industry firm as a Finance Analyst and is now a Manager and his role has changed a lot to where he isn't doing the repetitive stuff but more managing teams and working on new projects so in the right company there is potential for varied work etc. though your company may be too small for this.

What is the size of the firm you are interviewing with? If you are at a large firm such as Big4 or Mid-tier/Regional (or even smaller London firms) you will most likely be in a dedicated department and be able to focus on one specific area such as Audit & Accounts or Tax.

However if it is a smaller firm then you are likely to be involved with everything - which will give you a broader range of experience but will also be more difficult as you will have to learn a lot more in a shorter period of time. Also the clients will be smaller businesses who are less organised and hence more difficult to deal with. You will also face a lot of incomplete records type work which is a world away from what they teach you in the exams.

I agree with heretolearn that it would be a great opportunity to get your practising certificate. However be sure to check with ACCA about all the rules and experience you need to record as they are very strict with the returns that you have to make to them.

Make sure to ask questions at the end of the interview to make sure the move is right for you and if possible ask if you are able to speak with some of your future colleagues or people who have done the role you are interviewing for before.

Salary will depend on the location - if it is a bit less don't worry about it to much if you work well (and hopefully get promoted) those rewards will also increase.

Also in a smaller practice you may have to work long hours at time and they don't always offer overtime pay or TOIL (Big4 will offer TOIL)

Good luck with interview

edit: I see from one of your other topics that you have a bookkeeping client too - this may be a conflict of interest and is prohibited by some firms by their contract of employment (and when working long hours at busy times of the year you might not have enough time to do this)

accountingbod

Good morning and thank you both very much for the posts.
I wasn't expecting such a great insight as to what you have said to me here so thank you again

My interview has now been postponed until next week as i had to go on business when it was due before but actually having another week gived me some more time to reflect.

heretolearn - your insight in to how a practice works is really useful. I am a people person at heart for sure. I love to talk to people and ensure that i have good relationships with everyone i work with (not always possible but i do try!). I also have lots and lots of patience which i find helps even in an industry role.
Multiple jobs are what interest me the most because i find the repetition of some jobs in industry to be a real motivation and life killer.

Moneysavinguser - i have two exams left for which i am studying p6 tax and P5 performance management. I have already started although even if i hadnt, the thought of doing another audit exam leaves me feeling quite cold!
Some good points when it comes to the interview.

I had a chance to speak to my FD here the other day as he is leaving soon so felt i could chat more openly. He started in practice and moved to industry so it was a good insight in to the career he has had.

The company i have been invited to for an interview know about my bookkeeping and at the moment they don't offer it although they would like to start to provide this service. What they proposed is that i bring my services in-house and then in time pass my clients over to others as i qualify etc...
If this happened i was thinking that i should get as many clients as i could as this may affect any potential goodwill? lol...

I'm still not decided as i love the idea of practice being more varied. I work well under pressure and can manage people well so it appeals to me.
This then has to be weighed up with the higher level jobs in industry that do give more variation but more importantly allow you to take on more repsonsibility for the success of a business. The idea of working for a large firm and possibly bringing about change appeals to me a lot too.

- the firm i have an interview with is smaller. I think there are 4 partners and two other employees and they are looking to recruit 3 more people to their business. On this basis i think i would have a lot of exposure and opportunity to get involved in lots of different work.

Timmne

An interesting thread...

I'm in a pretty similar situation to the OP in that I work in industry. The biggest problem I find is that it can become very samey - every day some weeks is a really ball-ache. The irony is that the better you are at your job, the worse the job is as you have less to sort! In practice, you get a new job every time you get a client out of the way - for someone like me who can't sit doing the same thing all the time, this would be very welcome!

I remember when I left practice after getting my AAT into industry, the biggest benefit (apart from the massive payrise!) was that I didn't have to account for every 6 minutes anymore, as my time was no longer chargeable.

It's obviously a pretty personal decision so I can't help you much more than others have but I will be watching with interest!

MoneySavingUser

@accountingbod - It is good that it has been postponed as you have more time to prepare.

Tax is very good and PM is okay aswell, audit isn't really needed if you aren't going into that area. Good luck with them - are you doing them in June?

Ask your FD if he is able to give you a reference as the replacement might not know you as well and not give such a good reference.

I very much doubt you will be able to charge much if any goodwill on some bookkeeping clients that you have only recently acquired.

It definitely sounds varied - Do they have enough work for 3 more people? some just take on people to help with backlogs/busy periods and then don't have enough work for them long-term.

@Timmne - yeah that 6 minute stuff is insane!!

accountingbod

Good morning all

Well, it has been a while since i last posted on this thread but i went for the job interview which went well. I was offered a job there as a junior tax accountant - tax being the side i am interested in.

I then spent the next four days mulling it over in my mind and on the Monday called to thank them for their offer but i was going to kindly turn it down.

So, you may ask, what were my reasons? Well, other than the money (they offered me less than what i am on now) there were a few reasons.

1. As chances have it, i have just been given the go-ahead to do a large cost-benefit analysis on a project i proposed at work. This is exciting for me. As sad as it sounds 'business process re-design' (yes i know, i know) is very interesting to me. This will reduce my day to day repetitive work and give me a chance to do something that can really improve the business' performance.

2. I mentioned that i do bookkeeping on the side. I realised that i do like this side of work but acutally bookeeping is high enough for me to get the satisfaction of helping small businesses whilst also working in industry.

3. The time element of practice was brought up and the whole justification of time and late hours didnt appeal.

4. And finally, i just really love the company i work for (most of the time). I know i have to move on soon to find an FC role or something when i have passed all exams/requirements but this could be in six months to a year when my training costs have reduced a bit. I do get good benefits here and i really enjoy working with the people.

5. As much as the idea of having my own business is nice, i realised that as i am a very social person, being in an office environment suits me better. Now i just need to reduce that a little to something like a 3 day week for the summer and it would be perfect !

Thanks for all your comments.
They helped inform my decision and i feel like i have made the right choice for me

MoneySavingUser

Thanks for posting.

Good to see that you considered your options and decided to stick with what you have - many people would have taken the job and perhaps regretted it later.

Good luck with your career!