Written agreement with builder - valid protection?

sashalou8

hi all,
long time seeker of advice from these parts....was wondering if anyone had any advice/experience of written agreements with people doing work for you.

At the moment, we are having extensive renovation done on the top floor of our house. We have a couple of general builders who are friends of my partner who quoted for the majority of the work and we decided to go with them - the prices seem fair. The thing is - the quote they have given us is fairly haphazard and non-specific. For example, one of the areas listed is simply:
Painting all rooms £1700

To protect both parties (but I guess, more us) I suggested that I would write out the agreement in full - costs seperated by labour and materials, length of time per task, what they are covering, what we need to provide , labour guarantee etc. etc. And have us all sign it. They seem happy enough with this.
My question is - IF (hopefully not!) anything went wrong, or the job ran over, or they tried to charge us more than agreed - how much protection would something like this actually provide?

Thanks,
Sash

nickj_2

if they have written an itemised and detail quote then there should be no problem , however there can always be unforseen problems that can occur that cannot be accounted for -
if you take the painting which is what i do , for example , a few weeks ago i was doing a job where i had priced to strip off wallpaper , wash down walls and repaint , however the walls underneath the paper had been painted , the plaster however had not been mistcoated so there were huge areas where the paint had either peeled away or was not sticking to the wall , so i had to make it all good and then reline the walls before painting which i had not priced for ....

.communication and clarity is king - let them know what you want m and get them to tell or write down how they are going to deliver it .
i don't see any need for them to break down the costs of labour /materials , that is their business , you have accepted the quote , a completion date would be acceptable

phill99

It's important to have some written evidence of what you are expecting to receive and they are expecting to provide. This gives you something to refer to in the event of a problem.

As a contractor I would be reluctant to have in writing the length of time on each task. With the best will in the world, some things end up taking longer than expected and others less time. So to ho9ld someone to a specific timeframe is not appropriate. This may happen on major governbment infrastructure projects, but isn't necessary in refurbishing the top floor of a flat.

It's important that they also scope the work. 'Painting all rooms £1700' is likely to cause problems. Applying one coat of emulsion to every surface would satisfy this, but (I imagine) is hardly what you would be expecting. I would suggest something as follows: 'Make good, prepare and clean down walls and woodwork as necessary. Supply and Apply 2 No. coats vinyl matt emlsion in pure brilliant white to all ceilings. Supply and apply 2 - 3 coats emulsion vinyl matt emulsion in clients colour choice to all walls. Supply and apply 2 No coats oil based undercoat and 1 No. coat gloss in pure brilliant white to all wood work'. This, at least, defines the work to be done.

sashalou8

Thanks for the replies guys :beer:

LondonMick

The vast majority of agreements are not worth the paper written on. You can do everything you can to protect your rights. You can have it all written down and cover every eventuality but in the end it all comes down 'to your honesty and understanding' and the builders honesty and professionalism. The crossroads for misunderstandings and fall out are:

[1] From the outset you expect him not to charge you for small jobs you want doing. And when speaking to him are you are always on the lookout for freebies. [Example 2] At some stage you tell him you want the bedroom room walls painted blue - but ignore the fact that there are 90 shades of blue, you finally select shade 39, which turns out to be unavailable and agree to accept shade 44 in lieu, but after it's been painted with shade 44 you tell him "You hate it and want the original choice as in the written contract shade 39", when he refuses to redo the work at his cost and expense you then play your trump card and tell him if its not redone you won't pay him a penny". This scenario in a nutshell is the building trade and the reason it can be so annoying for all concerned including the builder / painter.

You sound the type who are hitching to get around to a Solicitor, but before you do try and see this job [and all building jobs] through the eyes of the workman / builder and your own Solicitor. And please don't bounce back and say everyone who works for us "Gets paid", in the building trade this is the most untrue of truisms. Please accept you never employ friends or people you know and honesty scores 100 with builders, your honesty not his?

sashalou8

Hi LondonMick,

Thanks for the reply and sorry you seem to have had so many bad experiences! I am not 'the type' to get a solicitor, that was actually the last thing I wanted, just a fair business agreement.
I actually work in a software services company and we don't even do a days' work without a written agreement, which is why I wanted expectations (on both sides) very clearly outlined.

They actually left all colour choices and responsibility for materials etc. up to me and I happily provided them with everything I wanted which is something that worked out well for both of us. There were extras - but agreed in advance and paid for in full.
Pleased to say that on the building side, the job has been done brilliantly and everyone is happy.
Cheers

phill99

LondonMick wrote: »

The vast majority of agreements are not worth the paper written on. You can do everything you can to protect your rights. You can have it all written down and cover every eventuality but in the end it all comes down 'to your honesty and understanding' and the builders honesty and professionalism. The crossroads for misunderstandings and fall out are:

[1] From the outset you expect him not to charge you for small jobs you want doing. And when speaking to him are you are always on the lookout for freebies. [Example 2] At some stage you tell him you want the bedroom room walls painted blue - but ignore the fact that there are 90 shades of blue, you finally select shade 39, which turns out to be unavailable and agree to accept shade 44 in lieu, but after it's been painted with shade 44 you tell him "You hate it and want the original choice as in the written contract shade 39", when he refuses to redo the work at his cost and expense you then play your trump card and tell him if its not redone you won't pay him a penny". This scenario in a nutshell is the building trade and the reason it can be so annoying for all concerned including the builder / painter.

You sound the type who are hitching to get around to a Solicitor, but before you do try and see this job [and all building jobs] through the eyes of the workman / builder and your own Solicitor. And please don't bounce back and say everyone who works for us "Gets paid", in the building trade this is the most untrue of truisms. Please accept you never employ friends or people you know and honesty scores 100 with builders, your honesty not his?

I don't know what your problem is, but I bet its difficult to spell.