Holiday Notice - Is this legal?

Goutetsu

I work for a family-run manufacturers and one of the business' two owners, who also deals with the company's HR, is particularly challenging to deal with on a day-to-day basis - hostile, rude, aggressive and generally unpleasant to everyone in the organisation. She and I have had a few run-ins during my tenure, but, in general, best practice seems to be to stay away from her and get on with my job which, in fairness, I do otherwise enjoy.

However, I've always been a bit perplexed by her policy on staff holidays. The rules frequently get re-written (I've never been asked to sign any agreements, but a new copy of these rules was sent to me by e-mail today), and she demands 30 days of notice for every holiday period requested. i.e if I want a single day's holiday, I must put a request in 30 days in advance.

I'm aware that 'best practice' is one day of notice for every day of holiday requested, but I've never raised this in a meeting, nor has anyone else for that matter, since she tends to take it personally and victimises those who vocally disagree with her for weeks at a time. In general, any holiday requests that come in under the 30 day limit are outright refused.

As it happens, I actually requested a day of leave for this coming Friday over two weeks ago and she still hasn't returned my holiday request form with approval or refusal. Frankly speaking, I'm expecting refusal tomorrow (one day before my holiday) although I'm convinced that she legally has to give me notice before this to refuse my request.

Either way, just wanted to know if this practice of 30 days was actually legal or not.

hcb42

while on the face of it unreasonable, my view this would not be illegal, as long as everyone can take their allowed holidays in the year etc...

wapow

Its not illegal.
At my last organisation, we had a system which we have access to and can automatically book days off. The system was full for months and months. It wa so difficult to book a holiday you wanted. Forget 30 days mate. Sometimes blocks of 5 months are fully booked. If you wanted time off you have to have an incredible reason. Otherwise its no go.

Goutetsu

Fair enough, in that case. The practice is especially frustrating since, ostensibly, it's only put in place because my MD only signs off holiday forms once a month. As baffling as this may sound to someone on the outside, there's an underlying sense that she actively hates the idea of people being legally entitled to holidays in the first place, and this manifests itself in a mean-spirited approach that even has her writing on said forms 'Never ask us how many days of holiday you have - it is your job to keep track'. Complete with four exclamation marks and written in human blood.

Thanks for the responses, guys.

wapow

Its not baffling. You get alot of this and people like her in call centres. Believe it or not theyre mostly female also.

I would ask her about the holidays just to get her stress levels through the roof then she will eventually have to take sick days and its party for everyone else!

Sambucus_Nigra

Typical Type A personality. Will probably die early. My usual response is to tell said person to 'remove the cork from their nether regions and chillax a little', or to do as the above person suggested, keep winding them up and watch the sparks fly. Of course both might result in no job but you can go through it in your head for the day you find that next job.

LittleVoice

Goutetsu wrote: »

I work for a family-run manufacturers and one of the business' two owners, who also deals with the company's HR, is particularly challenging to deal with on a day-to-day basis - hostile, rude, aggressive and generally unpleasant to everyone in the organisation. She and I have had a few run-ins during my tenure, but, in general, best practice seems to be to stay away from her and get on with my job which, in fairness, I do otherwise enjoy.

However, I've always been a bit perplexed by her policy on staff holidays. The rules frequently get re-written (I've never been asked to sign any agreements, but a new copy of these rules was sent to me by e-mail today), and she demands 30 days of notice for every holiday period requested. i.e if I want a single day's holiday, I must put a request in 30 days in advance.

I'm aware that 'best practice' is one day of notice for every day of holiday requested, but I've never raised this in a meeting, nor has anyone else for that matter, since she tends to take it personally and victimises those who vocally disagree with her for weeks at a time. In general, any holiday requests that come in under the 30 day limit are outright refused.

As it happens, I actually requested a day of leave for this coming Friday over two weeks ago and she still hasn't returned my holiday request form with approval or refusal. Frankly speaking, I'm expecting refusal tomorrow (one day before my holiday) although I'm convinced that she legally has to give me notice before this to refuse my request.

Either way, just wanted to know if this practice of 30 days was actually legal or not.

I don't know that "best practice" is as you write it. The legal situation (from WTRs) is that twice the length of the holiday should be given as requesting notice as a minimum.

paddedjohn

You have requested Friday (tomorrow) off and had no reply, your employer can refuse this request as long as they give notice of at least the same as the time requested so they are too late to refuse you now and must honour the leave.

Goutetsu

Yeah, I got no reply to my holiday request today either, meaning that my one day's requested holiday - tomorrow - is, presumably, refused. Even though they should have informed me in accordance with WTR guidelines, I think these are superseded by the company’s own holiday policies, which state that “no holiday is to be taken until it has been officially signed off.” Of course, I never agreed to this policy so much as I am a victim of it, simply by being an employee. These guidelines don’t appear in my contract as far as I can tell, but as they got e-mailed to me last week, I assume that I don’t have really have any say in the matter.

Such is life.

Goutetsu

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

Typical Type A personality.

Had to look this up as not come across the term before. Replace 'arrogant' with 'chronically insecure' and it fits the bill perfectly.

Thanks for this - cheered me up enormously.

wapow wrote: »

I would ask her about the holidays just to get her stress levels through the roof then she will eventually have to take sick days and its party for everyone else!

Much as I would enjoy this, I really do need that reference!

LittleVoice wrote: »

I don't know that "best practice" is as you write it. The legal situation (from WTRs) is that twice the length of the holiday should be given as requesting notice as a minimum.

Thanks for this. Is this law or does the company have the right to replace this system with one of their creation provided they do still grant me sufficient means to take all my holidays within the span of a year?

ohreally

Goutetsu wrote: »

Is this law or does the company have the right to replace this system with one of their creation provided they do still grant me sufficient means to take all my holidays within the span of a year?

The company position can't dilute lawful provision.

Consider becoming organised and join a trade union with your colleagues, you don't have to accept this.